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Post by sewhite2000 on Mar 13, 2023 14:29:42 GMT
I have things I would like to say, but if I learned anything from the old message boards, it's that me expressing my personal opinions about anything online is going to ultimately cause me a great deal of unhappiness. Hopefully, I'm getting wiser as I get older.
I would like to say that those of you pointing out that this decision was probably made by Fox or Disney (whatever year the decision was made) are very likely correct, so everyone please stop using this as another reason to hate TCM.
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Post by topbilled on Mar 13, 2023 14:58:20 GMT
Is it your POV that if TCM can't lease an unedited version of a film, TCM shouldn't show the film, period, since that would violate their active policy? My assumption is that TCM's programmer were clueless in this case, I.e., they weren't aware what version they had leased. If that assumption is correct, in the future TCM's programmers have to be on-the-ball with regards to what version they have leased: TCM can't enforce any policy if they don't know what version they have leased (or if the unedited one is even available). TCM's programmers being clueless is where my disappointment with TCM starts and ends (since I don't believe TCM is trying to pull-a-fast-one by stating they have a policy when they really don't).
But I think you’re probably right that in this case, they were probably unaware of the cuts to The French Connection. That would be my guess, too. |
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Post by sepiatone on Mar 13, 2023 15:59:29 GMT
My suspicion is they made that promise back in a time when the culture was less eager to punish transgressions of socio-political boundaries. They were also probably talking more about edits for time and format. They were showing fewer films where language was a problem - at a time when language was itself less of a problem - and they were showing films from an era that had not yet come to be regarded as the dark ages. "Unedited and commercial free" was an easier claim to make then. Now it takes nerve.
Corporate America doesn't have it. Never has. Cept for Netflix. And the people who carry Joe Rogan. yet even now they have less of a problem with profanity and nudity that other channels often censor. And probably more people object to those things than a racial slur spoken by a character that's possibly supposed to be a bigot. And by the way..... JAMES: When I state something like "TCM VERSION" it of course refers to the version that TCM is showing or has shown. So please quit explaining how the watch works when somebody asks for the time.  But yeah, you're probably right that it may have been somebody in their programming division that wasn't on the ball. We'll probably never know because TCM seems loathe to come clean about their overreactions to anything they deem "problematic". AND that also leaves open the possibility that TCM shopped around for such an edited version to lease. Sepiatone |
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Post by jamesjazzguitar on Mar 13, 2023 16:21:14 GMT
If TCM knows that they’re being offered an edited movie, yes, I think they should pass on it, since they’ve promised for years that the movies they show are unedited.
Corporate America doesn't have it. Never has. Cept for Netflix. And the people who carry Joe Rogan. Dan, it appears you're implying that TCM is involved in some type of bait-and-switch: I.e. they know the film they leased has been edited for content but decide to show it anyways, without making a comment AND they also decide to show that promotional material, that was recently recorded (since it features all the current hosts), about not messing-with-history, to fool TCM viewers. (as Bing noted that promo was shown when they showed The Dirty Dozen, which has cancel-culture-content, which was NOT edited out). Hey, anything is possible but have you been watching the film JFK, a lot recently? |
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Post by jamesjazzguitar on Mar 13, 2023 16:35:20 GMT
If TCM knows that they’re being offered an edited movie, yes, I think they should pass on it, since they’ve promised for years that the movies they show are unedited.
But I think you’re probably right that in this case, they were probably unaware of the cuts to The French Connection. That would be my guess, too. It is a logical assumption that the TCM programmers would need to know the running-time of each film they lease but that doesn't mean these same programmers are able to link (match), the running-time with select versions. Thus, we are all stuck on the same speculation; how clueless where the TCM programmers in the case of The French Connection? (And how much of a factual decision was made, or not, by these same programmers). |
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Post by Lucky Dan on Mar 13, 2023 17:48:55 GMT
My suspicion is they made that promise back in a time when the culture was less eager to punish transgressions of socio-political boundaries. They were also probably talking more about edits for time and format. They were showing fewer films where language was a problem - at a time when language was itself less of a problem - and they were showing films from an era that had not yet come to be regarded as the dark ages. "Unedited and commercial free" was an easier claim to make then. Now it takes nerve.
Corporate America doesn't have it. Never has. Cept for Netflix. And the people who carry Joe Rogan. Dan, it appears you're implying that TCM is involved in some type of bait-and-switch: I.e. they know the film they leased has been edited for content but decide to show it anyways, without making a comment AND they also decide to show that promotional material, that was recently recorded (since it features all the current hosts), about not messing-with-history, to fool TCM viewers. (as Bing noted that promo was shown when they showed The Dirty Dozen, which has cancel-culture-content, which was NOT edited out). Hey, anything is possible but have you been watching the film JFK, a lot recently?
To answer your rhetorical, I have not seen JFK recently but I recall it was crap. I'm not a conspiracy theorist on any subject, be it JFK, the moon, or American Indians. Or the two most recent presidential elections. Neither do I assume the employees of TCM are too stupid to know their business, including whether or not they are running an edited French Connection.
What cancel-culture content was not cut from the Dozen?
Edit: I just read Bing's post and did some googling. The N word in Dozen is spoken by a black character, which is acceptable (and common) in rap and comedy (take a look at Chris Rock's recent performance about the slapping incident) and so should be acceptable in an old movie. From Gene Hackman as Popeye? A cop? No. |
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Post by sewhite2000 on Mar 13, 2023 17:57:17 GMT
"Do they still make the claim "unedited and commercial" free? I thought I read someone ask when was the last time anyone heard it"
Pretty sure the phrase was "UnCUT and commercial free", which brings to mind angry, heated, passionate debates I"ve wasted my time reading on 4chan about cirumcision. I don't know what the difference is between a cut and an edit, but just to clarify.
And I personally haven't heard the phrase used in a TCM promo in quite some time.
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Post by jamesjazzguitar on Mar 13, 2023 18:58:01 GMT
Dan, it appears you're implying that TCM is involved in some type of bait-and-switch: I.e. they know the film they leased has been edited for content but decide to show it anyways, without making a comment AND they also decide to show that promotional material, that was recently recorded (since it features all the current hosts), about not messing-with-history, to fool TCM viewers. (as Bing noted that promo was shown when they showed The Dirty Dozen, which has cancel-culture-content, which was NOT edited out). Hey, anything is possible but have you been watching the film JFK, a lot recently?
To answer your rhetorical, I have not seen JFK recently but I recall it was crap. I'm not a conspiracy theorist on any subject, be it JFK, the moon, or American Indians. Or the two most recent presidential elections. Neither do I assume the employees of TCM are too stupid to know their business, including whether or not they are running an edited French Connection.
What cancel-culture content was not cut from the Dozen?
Edit: I just read Bing's post and did some googling. The N word in Dozen is spoken by a black character, which is acceptable (and common) in rap and comedy (take a look at Chris Rock's recent performance about the slapping incident) and so should be acceptable in an old movie. From Gene Hackman as Popeye? A cop? No.It appears we disagree on the suspicion: I assume TCM programmers are often clueless about what version they have leased, while you suspect that TCM programmers do have such knowledge, and due to PC reasons favor showing a PC version instead of an unedited version. Hey, maybe I'm not being cynical enough here, but I just find it hard to believe TCM would run that promo about retaining the historical content of a film (which they showed right after Dozen) but are trying to pull a fast one on TCM viewers by leasing PC versions and showing only those. |
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Post by Lucky Dan on Mar 13, 2023 19:23:11 GMT
Implying nothing. (Notice I said it is "my suspicion.")
I'm not a conspiracy theorist on any subject ... Neither do I assume the employees of TCM are too stupid to know their business, including whether or not they are running an edited French Connection.
The N word in Dozen is spoken by a black character, which is acceptable (and common) in rap and comedy .. and so should be acceptable in an old movie. From Gene Hackman as Popeye? A cop? No. It appears we disagree on the suspicion: I assume TCM programmers are often clueless about what version they have leased, while you suspect that TCM programmers do have such knowledge, and due to PC reasons favor showing a PC version instead of an unedited version. Hey, maybe I'm not being cynical enough here, but I just find it hard to believe TCM would run that promo about retaining the historical content of a film (which they showed right after Dozen) but are trying to pull a fast one on TCM viewers by leasing PC versions and showing only those.
It's like when someone says they believe in unconditional love, and you ask would they still love someone who robbed them and cheated them and murdered their dog? And they answer "Of course not but that's different!" Well, no. It's a condition. TCM can say they don't edit content, but still assume we all agree the word is so offensive, they don't need to explain it being cut, because of course it has to be cut.
Then, to my original point, they take a seemingly bold but actually quite safe stand (for the reason stated in my prior post) by saying after running the Dozen that they left it in for integrity. Cause they're so fearless in defense of art. As Chris Rock might say, total bitch move. |
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Post by jamesjazzguitar on Mar 13, 2023 19:59:06 GMT
It appears we disagree on the suspicion: I assume TCM programmers are often clueless about what version they have leased, while you suspect that TCM programmers do have such knowledge, and due to PC reasons favor showing a PC version instead of an unedited version. Hey, maybe I'm not being cynical enough here, but I just find it hard to believe TCM would run that promo about retaining the historical content of a film (which they showed right after Dozen) but are trying to pull a fast one on TCM viewers by leasing PC versions and showing only those.
It's like when someone says they believe in unconditional love, and you ask would they still love someone who robbed them and cheated them and murdered their dog? And they answer "Of course not but that's different!" Well, no. It's a condition. TCM can say they don't edit content, but still assume we all agree the word is so offensive, they don't need to explain it being cut, because of course it has to be cut.
Then, to my original point, they take a seemingly bold but actually quite safe stand (for the reason stated in my prior post) by saying after running the Dozen that they left it in for integrity. Cause they're so fearless in defense of art. As Chris Rock might say, total bitch move.Wow, that is one very strongly worded suspicion that looks like a conspiracy theory to me. I believe we have a common understanding of where we differ so thanks for the discussion. |
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Post by kims on Mar 13, 2023 19:59:46 GMT
In THE DIRTY DOZEN Telly Savalas character asks " do we have to eat with N..?" That was left intact in the last viewing. I think we might be back to it is not TCM editing, but a programmer not aware of different versions or even the companies leasing don't know what they have. IMO we need more detail oriented film lovers in the business.
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Post by Lucky Dan on Mar 13, 2023 20:02:28 GMT
... they take a seemingly bold but actually quite safe stand (for the reason stated in my prior post) by saying after running the Dozen that they left it in for integrity. Cause they're so fearless in defense of art. As Chris Rock might say, total bitch move. Wow, that is one very strongly worded suspicion that looks like a conspiracy theory to me. . |
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Post by jamesjazzguitar on Mar 13, 2023 21:29:23 GMT
In THE DIRTY DOZEN Telly Savalas character asks " do we have to eat with N..?" That was left intact in the last viewing. I think we might be back to it is not TCM editing, but a programmer not aware of different versions or even the companies leasing don't know what they have. IMO we need more detail oriented film lovers in the business. Again, TCM can not legally edit out content. The US Supreme Court ruled on this many years ago, related to ma\pa video shop providers in Utah that were editing out content to be consistent with Morman values. The Director Guild sued and won (which is ironic since directors rarely own the rights to the films they directed, especially during the studio-era, with the exception of Hitchcock). |
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Post by jamesjazzguitar on Mar 13, 2023 21:39:49 GMT
Wow, that is one very strongly worded suspicion that looks like a conspiracy theory to me. . How can you not define what you imply TCM may be doing as not being a conspiracy? I.e., two or more people knowingly taking actions to deceive others. 1) TCM knows they are leasing edited films. 2) TCM continues to state their corporate policy: that they don't show films edited for content. 3) TCM shows these edited films, hosts have been told to not discuss the topic, and TCM even has the gall to show their no-cut promo after doing so. If the above is true, I find it hard to believe that this is all driven by a single rouge programmer: I.e. more people, especially some of the hosts, would have to be knowledgeable about what was happening and that would make it a conspiracy to deceive TCM viewers in order to appease PC\cancel culture nut jobs. |
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Post by Lucky Dan on Mar 13, 2023 22:08:37 GMT
Not conspiracy. Spinelessness. How can you not define what you imply TCM may be doing as not being a conspiracy? I.e., two or more people knowingly taking actions to deceive others. 1) TCM knows they are leasing edited films. 2) TCM continues to state their corporate policy: that they don't show films edited for content. 3) TCM shows these edited films, hosts have been told to not discuss the topic, and TCM even has the gall to show their no-cut promo after doing so. If the above is true, I find it hard to believe that this is all driven by a single rouge programmer: I.e. more people, especially some of the hosts, would have to be knowledgeable about what was happening and that would make it a conspiracy to deceive TCM viewers in order to appease PC\cancel culture nut jobs. |
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