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Post by cineclassics on Oct 28, 2022 18:13:31 GMT
I'm curious for those of you who have been long time viewers of TCM, what changes have you noticed over the years? As I am a relative newcomer to TCM (3 years) I only have a vague sense of how the channel has evolved over the years, and that is mostly because I have been able to track down old intro/outros and promos on Youtube.
I gravitate more toward the old aesthetic and tone of Robert's intros/outros than the current hosts (although I do really enjoy Eddie Muller's analysis). It makes me saddened and nostalgic for the old TCM I never knew but wish I had.
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Post by CinemaInternational on Oct 28, 2022 18:31:45 GMT
I can only go from what I recall from a decade ago, but TCM used to air far more rare Columbia titles 10 years ago than they do today, and they also had a heavy rotation of 20th Century Fox films from 2012-2014, and some of them have not shown up again since. There were not quite as many post-60s titles as there are now, and the ones that were on the air typically tended to be shown in the late night hours at which most people would be asleep. i miss the old presentation effects (the pop-up book in the mornings, the Rube Goldberg like machine in the afternoons, Robert Osbourne's prime time one, and the noir-like one for late night)
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Post by cmovieviewer on Oct 29, 2022 8:17:55 GMT
The original TCM ‘branding’ does make much more sense to me, as they picked up on and celebrated the look of films and film advertising from the 30s and 40s. Now I suppose TCM is trying to appeal to a younger audience and seems to be afraid of looking old.
I agree with CinemaInternational’s point about films from some of the other studios being less likely to be shown on TCM. This is probably due to the competition from the streaming services causing them to hang on to their titles as well as reduced budgets for TCM to acquire them.
It is somewhat amazing, but Robert and Ben did all of the intros that are now done by 5 people.
This was mentioned in another thread, but the Private Screenings series was a unique production from TCM that showcased Robert’s interviewing skills and let the public get to know many of the icons that were being featured in the films. Unfortunately both Robert and most of these stars are gone now, but TCM was able to take the opportunity to capture them one last time. I think this series really helped viewers relate to the stars of the decades-old films they were watching.
Some other little things have been lost over the years, for example after each movie completed an announcer would read the list of upcoming films and make a small comment about the theme, etc. There were also much fewer ‘commercials’ for things like the wine club, cruises, fathom events…
Other series like The Essentials and Essentials Jr. seem to be gone as well. These series did have some detractors on the message boards, depending on who the co-host was with Robert and the films that were chosen. But it was another opportunity for Robert to have a discussion with a guest for some of the truly classic films.
Some may like it and some may not, but as reflected in the different hosts TCM does seem to be trying to present a more diverse range of films, more specifically featuring black and women filmmakers, for example. Of course this is also an attempt to be more relevant as well as providing a counterpoint to the view that some of the films shown are culturally outdated.
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Post by dianedebuda on Oct 29, 2022 16:18:13 GMT
I pretty much agree with cmovieviewer. I think the focus was on the movies, how they were made, and the audience's reaction when it was released. These days it seems to be how a viewer should react to the morals and standards reflected in the film vs today's values. Can't enjoy or hate a film just because any more?
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Post by CinemaInternational on Oct 29, 2022 17:19:57 GMT
Can't enjoy or hate a film just because any more?
I can, and I think most if not all of the TCM Message Board regulars do as well. The only things that really take me out of a film is when blackface numbers turn up or 60s, 70s, and 80s titles that didn't take the crime of rape seriously. But aside from that, films should be seen as reflections of when they were made, without perennially dragging in the present day. I miss the days of more straightforward movie assessments. |
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Post by dianedebuda on Oct 29, 2022 17:50:34 GMT
Can't enjoy or hate a film just because any more?
I can, and I think most if not all of the TCM Message Board regulars do as well. |
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Post by Moe Howard on Oct 29, 2022 17:53:22 GMT
i miss the old presentation effects (the pop-up book in the mornings, the Rube Goldberg like machine in the afternoons, Robert Osbourne's prime time one, and the noir-like one for late night) I've got quite a few of the older showings on the DVR and it's so good to see those intros. |
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Post by lydecker on Oct 29, 2022 22:51:38 GMT
I miss the wonderfully creative graphics of the opens and the special segments (like SOTM) which were so much a part of the network "back in the day." Clearly, these graphics were created by some very, very talented people who "got" classic movies and wanted to pay homage to them. I also am so tired of the constant apologizing by the channel for films of the 30's and 40's as if we didn't understand that blackface was objectionable and pigeon-holing black actors in servant roles was wrong. We get it, we really do, TCM so you don't have to lecture to us 24/7. I think so much of what is being shown on the channel now is trash. Kind of like the worst of 1960's and 1970's films -- I feel like I am watching some local TV station that can only afford the movies that nobody else wants to watch. I'm a fan of many of the current hosts -- Eddie Muller, of course and I've always liked Ben. Alicia Malone & Jacqueline Stewart have been good additions but I think Karger is a waste of time. JUST MY HUMBLE OPINION
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Post by MacGuffin on Oct 30, 2022 14:48:56 GMT
One of the strange things that happens as we age is that we look back with fondness at the things we once took for granted. Sometimes those things lost were truly better than what replaced them, and sometimes it's merely the loss of the familiar that we mourn.
When I think back to the TCM of yesteryear, it feels like a pair of comfortable old slippers. There was a warmth, an ease of presentation that somehow put you in the perfect state of mind to watch an old movie. The bumpers, with their visuals and music recalling times past, perfectly reflected what I felt when watching these old classics. They were the perfect compliment on a journey to the past. Robert Osborne was the personification of this gentle, warm, inviting atmosphere.
The TCM of today, while delivering many of those same movies, has packaged them in a much different wrapper. It is energetic, eye-catching, quick-moving, socially aware, and hip. It does not evoke the same mood that I remember so fondly.
But I have to remember that it's no longer me whom TCM needs. Every generation looks for something they can call their own, and the youth of today are the ones who will determine if TCM will continue to exist. They are the ones who need to feel this is their TCM, and the network has responded by addressing them with the aesthetics that make them feel warm and comfortable.
Another strange part of aging is learning to let go and trying to embrace new things. The essence of my TCM is gone, but I always try to appreciate that this TCM is for someone else. Someone who will one day also mourn for its loss.
And so it goes.
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Post by dianedebuda on Oct 30, 2022 14:56:10 GMT
this TCM is for someone else. I don't think I've read a better summary.
So sad there's not a TCM for people like me now. I'm really glad that I spent all of those hours in the past building a library that I can enjoy now. |
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Post by topbilled on Oct 30, 2022 15:24:54 GMT
It should never be something for someone else. It should be something for everyone.
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Post by Fading Fast on Oct 30, 2022 16:08:49 GMT
One of the strange things that happens as we age is that we look back with fondness at the things we once took for granted. Sometimes those things lost were truly better than what replaced them, and sometimes it's merely the loss of the familiar that we mourn. When I think back to the TCM of yesteryear, it feels like a pair of comfortable old slippers. There was a warmth, an ease of presentation that somehow put you in the perfect state of mind to watch an old movie. The bumpers, with their visuals and music recalling times past, perfectly reflected what I felt when watching these old classics. They were the perfect compliment on a journey to the past. Robert Osborne was the personification of this gentle, warm, inviting atmosphere. The TCM of today, while delivering many of those same movies, has packaged them in a much different wrapper. It is energetic, eye-catching, quick-moving, socially aware, and hip. It does not evoke the same mood that I remember so fondly. But I have to remember that it's no longer me whom TCM needs. Every generation looks for something they can call their own, and the youth of today are the ones who will determine if TCM will continue to exist. They are the ones who need to feel this is their TCM, and the network has responded by addressing them with the aesthetics that make them feel warm and comfortable. Another strange part of aging is learning to let go and trying to embrace new things. The essence of my TCM is gone, but I always try to appreciate that this TCM is for someone else. Someone who will one day also mourn for its loss. And so it goes.
I grew up in the loud, colorful and chaotic 1970s - rock, disco, Vietnam, jeans, lime-green leisure suits, etc. - and some of that culture I embraced and still enjoy to this day. Heck, I was all of sixteen when MTV launched and I loved all those crazy early videos. But in the 1970s, I also found "old" movies on local TV a nice escape to a different time/culture.
When TCM started up, its intros, graphics, music, tone, etc., were all consistent with the, mainly, '30s - '60s (maybe '50s, it's hard to remember) movies it was showing. The station said through those intros, etc., "come join us in another time and culture for as long as you want to stay."
That made it inviting to me, a kid of the '70s who is very comfortable with computers, change, rock music, etc. Heck, three of my favorite movies of all time - "The Godfather I & II" and "Jaws -" came from the 1970s, but it was TCM's contrast to the modern world / escape to another time that appealed to me. I didn't want to live in TCM's world exclusively, just visit it regularly.
So I wonder if today's "modern" branding, which you so accurate say is "energetic, eye-catching, quick-moving, socially aware, and hip," is a good idea. Does it draw in the person looking for a respite/change from today's culture? Since all the color, quick shots and techno music of its new branding doesn't align to the product (old, mainly, B&W movies), does it feel like false advertising to a new viewer?
Hence, if TCM pulls, say, a ten-year-old kid or woman in her '30s in with its slick new graphics and hip sound, will that kid or woman be disappointed when "Only Angels Have Wings" or "The Human Comedy" takes its time slowly building its story with long scenes with little action? Wouldn't TCM have a better chance of attracting somebody open to its product if the station's graphics, etc., looked like and reflected the tone of the product itself?
I'm glad TCM is addressing issues like racism, homosexuality and sexism as that, IMO, is a good, natural and necessary evolution of our culture and TCM would be remiss to ignore it (although, like much of our culture today, it could virtue signal less), but that is separate from its "branding" as I see no reason why intelligent and modern conversations and commentary couldn't take place inside a period-consistent branding.
I know I don't have the answers, as these are just thoughts to, hopefully, further the conversation. |
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Post by CinemaInternational on Oct 30, 2022 18:54:06 GMT
Sounds like a 1970 film to me.....  |
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Post by CinemaInternational on Oct 30, 2022 19:01:39 GMT
Here are some old bumpers for TCM cobbled together.
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Post by cineclassics on Nov 1, 2022 20:13:02 GMT
Here's a recent video TCM just posted that I believe illustrates just how much TCM has changed. Labeling the movie Psycho as "transphobic." Incredible and perplexing.
And as a previous post mentioned in this thread, if TCM continues to go down this road, the very ethos of TCM itself will cease to exist because the vast majority of classic cinema incorporates values of a different era, many of which are unacceptable to modern sensibilities. Therefore I ask--is a series such as "Reframed" a net benefit or overall net negative for TCM? I also would like to know why, in the over 20 years of Robert Osborne's knowledge and leadership at the company, was a series like Reframed never conducted? I am very tempted to ask the TCM Programming Talent and Hosts themselves these questions when I arrive on the cruise, because when else would I ever get the opportunity. However, I'm sure my wife will discourage me from creating controversy.
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