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Post by I Love Melvin on Nov 6, 2023 15:36:38 GMT
I imagine most movie discussion groups have some variant of this basic idea, but credit where credit is due to Ed Margulies and Stephen Rebello, who originated the term in Movieline Magazine and in a book collected from their columns. Back in the day, Ted Turner did some great specialty programming on TNT (Turner Network Television), before he created Turner Classic Movies, one of which was a regular segment featuring the guys, usually consisting of at least a double bill. (There's more on YouTube for anyone interested.)
Coming Soon:
Harlow as you've never seen her before, and there's a good reason for that.
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Post by I Love Melvin on Nov 6, 2023 18:08:36 GMT
Harlow (1965); Iconic 30's Star Given a Swingin' 60's Makeover, with Predictable Results. First rule for watching this movie: forget about Jean Harlow. The movie has a palpable 1960's vibe; it goes to minimal lengths to create the look and feel of the era in which Jean lived and worked. This is a post-Marilyn blonde bombshell, with little relation to the Depression-era actress who started it all. There's a Bobby Vinton theme song, for God's sake. Its score is by Neal Hefti, who wrote TV's Batman theme. There's some vaguely Deco-ish decor, but every wig, costume and eyelash screams 1960's. The producer's bedroom looks like the master suite at the Playboy Mansion. Surround her with as many borzois as you want, guys, she still looks more like circa-Ocean's 11 Angie Dickinson than Dinner at Eight Jean. And because they barely tried, this movie is fair game for yucks, and there are plenty.
The script is based on Harlow; An Intimate Biography (1964), Iving Shulman's pulpy bestseller which, rather than being any kind of full biography, basically begins and ends with the testimony of her agent, Arthur Landau, on which the whole edifice is built. I could waste a lot of breath on how and why the movie (or book) doesn't match up with the historical record, but where's the fun in that? The fun is in watching Carroll Baker being dressed up like a cut-out paper doll and set down, say, at the premier of The Blonde Virgin, Love Me Forever or Luscious Lady, those legendary films Jean Harlow made for Majestic Studios, as every schoolboy knows.  In one of the few relatable performances in the film, Red Buttons plays the agent who discovers her crashing a lunch line on a movie set, watching her peer into her purse, frown when she comes up with nothing, then shake her head and lick her lips hungrily; it's called acting. From this display he somehow intuits she could scale the heights of the movie industry. Yeah, hindsight's twenty-twenty. He springs for lunch and makes the deal to represent this sure thing. _015.jpg) He shops her around at a major motion picture star's pool party, and here I have to pause because it's Mike Connors, who is nobody's idea of a major star. It's the kind of casting mishap which has sunk many another film, and I'm looking at you, Valley of the Dolls. (Quick! Name the actor who played Lyon Burke.....No? I rest my case.) Anyway, his strategy is to get enough film on her to show big producer Leslie Nielsen..a womanizer maybe supposed to be Howard Hughes?...who signs her and gives her a big build-up but doesn't make movies quickly enough, so now the agent wants out of the contract and sends Jean into the lion's den to nix the deal by spurning his inevitable advances. The ensuing scene takes place in the ultimate Hollywood fantasy bedroom, which must have taken up half a sound stage and is wall-to-wall satin drapes and bedsheets, the works. The massive drapes open to reveal a sunken Roman bath on one end and a working rain forest (!) on the other. Eat your heart out, Hugh Hefner. They tussle 1960's-style, which means only up to a point. But there's enough rough stuff of him slamming her onto the bed to be a suitably lurid highpoint in a theatrical trailer..JPG&ehk=FaxkmZ1zxsDSqpKMyN%2f02Jvts6y7T%2fHUPf%2bKImD67A0%3d&risl=&pid=ImgRaw&r=0) Next we find the Majestic Pictures studio head (Martin Balsam) being convinced by flunky staffers that "sex films for the family" are the new thing and that Jean would be just the gal for the job. At the studio she meets and marries Paul Bern (Peter Lawford)...So now you're going to start using real names? The famous wedding night "failure" sends her into a tailspin that leads her into a Neely O'Hara-like montage of strange men and cheap hotel rooms and to passing out in the surf in a scene which surely inspired Barbara Parkins to do the same in Valley of the Dolls.  This brings on pneumonia and an early demise, which completely rewrites Harlow's death from septicemia, but who's even counting the fabrications anymore? But it does give Angela Lansbury as her mother a good tearful scene at the deathbed. The fact that her character of Jean's mother has been so supportive and understanding throughout is another screwy rewrite of history, since Mama Jean was notoriously unhinged and interfering. The stepfather Marino Bello (Raf Vallone), however, was played more appropriately as a user and schemer eager to ride the gravy train. His character was also good preview fodder in his sometimes-leering appraisal of his stepdaughter's physicality (and her brief appraisal of his). The triumvirate of Jean, her mother and stepfather was, both in the film and in life, a dynamic which may have fueled her desire to create a new "reality" for herself in the movies. Her story is worthy of a much truer telling than this glossy and generally specious movie provides.
But strictly on its own terms it's a slickly cartoonish entertainment in the "Hollywood looks at itself" genre, simultaneously celebrating and chastising an industry built on the exploitation of the dreams of young women. In that way it's like The Oscar (1966), which followed a male stinker step by slimy step as he made a run for the top. Carroll Baker is there because she had done the role of "Rina Marlowe" the previous year in The Carpetbaggers, a fun but phony-baloney revamp of Howard Hughes' flirtation with the movie industry, so I guess the logic was that she'd done a fake Jean Harlow already and audiences liked it OK, so let's have her do a fake Jean Harlow again. So on point for Hollywood. I've liked her in many films, but her relatively flattened affect and her tendency to shrillness in this role in no way matches the savvy, wit and good humor of the real Jean Harlow. It was directed by Gordon Douglas, an old pro who'd been around forever, and the fault wasn't so much in him as in the miscasting (in at least a couple of key instances), the over-ripe script (and Shulman's source material) and in the overall inappropriate, for the Depression era, design elements. This isn't even History Lite; this is way out in the left field of history. But if you're looking for something shallow and flashy to "take your mind off things", this one's a good bet, especially for movie fans, who already understand that show biz is heavily laden with hokum. Not sure whether it's streaming anywhere but Olive Films has/had a beautiful widescreen print on DVD. (Finally!) If you can manage to put Jean Harlow out of your mind long enough, let Carroll Baker take you on her adventures in Movieland.
"I'm ready for my close-up, Mr. Douglas."_024.jpg) |
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Post by topbilled on Nov 7, 2023 14:45:58 GMT
Great idea for a thread.
The problem I had with the Harlow movie you cited is that Carroll Baker looks like Carroll Baker, she doesn't look like Jean Harlow. And in the off chance she's not looking like Carroll Baker, then she looks like a blonde Ann-Margret. It seems like a lot of dress-up, without really getting to the heart of who Harlow was and capturing the true essence of her.
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Post by kims on Nov 7, 2023 20:31:07 GMT
I also like this thread. Now to get the nerve to confess some of my guilty pleasures. While I work up the nerve, I'll confess a tv special-I have on dvd, Mr. MaGoo's Christmas Carol and gasp, I sing along on a few songs.
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Post by I Love Melvin on Nov 8, 2023 14:17:40 GMT
Great idea for a thread.
The problem I had with the Harlow movie you cited is that Carroll Baker looks like Carroll Baker, she doesn't look like Jean Harlow. And in the off chance she's not looking like Carroll Baker, then she looks like a blonde Ann-Margret. It seems like a lot of dress-up, without really getting to the heart of who Harlow was and capturing the true essence of her. Thanks. I'm aware that this kind of thing can get rocky, because one person's "good/bad" can be another person's "beloved", so it's not all fun and games. Everyone should get a voice, so I expect disagreements will be a part of this, as they should be. But we love movies for many reasons, one of which is for the entertainment value, which isn't necessarily the same as cultural or historical value. I'm sure we've all watched movies which have tickled us even though they wouldn't really stand up to critical scrutiny. Yes, heart and essence were not part of the picture in the Harlow movie. I was amazed how far they felt comfortable straying from easily provable facts. The number of complete inventions was actually kind of breathtaking. |
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Post by I Love Melvin on Nov 8, 2023 14:24:02 GMT
I also like this thread. Now to get the nerve to confess some of my guilty pleasures. While I work up the nerve, I'll confess a tv special-I have on dvd, Mr. MaGoo's Christmas Carol and gasp, I sing along on a few songs. I'm smiling as I think of you singing along to Mr. Magoo. That's the spirit! When you get up the nerve, I can't wait to read what some of your guilty pleasures are. "Guilty Pleasures" might actually have been a better name for this thread, but I went with the fairly well-established "Bad Movies We Love" concept since I thought it would be something easily recognizable and relatable. But I like your emphasis on the pleasures which even silly movies can bring. |
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Post by topbilled on Nov 8, 2023 15:34:52 GMT
Great idea for a thread.
The problem I had with the Harlow movie you cited is that Carroll Baker looks like Carroll Baker, she doesn't look like Jean Harlow. And in the off chance she's not looking like Carroll Baker, then she looks like a blonde Ann-Margret. It seems like a lot of dress-up, without really getting to the heart of who Harlow was and capturing the true essence of her. Thanks. I'm aware that this kind of thing can get rocky, because one person's "good/bad" can be another person's "beloved", so it's not all fun and games. Everyone should get a voice, so I expect disagreements will be a part of this, as they should be. But we love movies for many reasons, one of which is for the entertainment value, which isn't necessarily the same as cultural or historical value. I'm sure we've all watched movies which have tickled us even though they wouldn't really stand up to critical scrutiny. Yes, heart and essence were not part of the picture in the Harlow movie. I was amazed how far they felt comfortable straying from easily provable facts. The number of complete inventions was actually kind of breathtaking. |
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Post by I Love Melvin on Nov 8, 2023 18:22:54 GMT
There was a second HARLOW movie the same year. Kinda wonder what prompted that resurgence of interest in her during the mid-60s, as it seems random...it's not like it was her 100th birthday or that her movies were appearing suddenly on cable. I think a biopic on Thelma Todd would have been more interesting, since her death was quite mysterious. I think it was the Irving Shulman "biography" which kicked off the renewed interest. It was basically a memoir by her agent as told in Shulman's rather lurid prose and it somehow connected with the public. I remember it being a big bestseller, especially after it came out in paperback. It was marketed as being "sensational", catnip for the reading public back then, which was gobbling up all sorts of "torrid" fiction like The Carpetbaggers. The second Harlow film was an interesting case. In the race to get it into theaters and keep a competitive edge, it was filmed in the "Electronovision" process, basically like the old kinoscope process of filming live television onto film stock. With Electronovision the movie was done in an early videotaping system and then transferred to film so it could be shown in theaters and the process itself could be ballyhooed as an added inducement. That one with Carol Lynley and Ginger Rogers as her mother is currently available on YouTube but I haven't been able to get all the way through, though I may still at some point. |
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Post by I Love Melvin on Nov 10, 2023 14:35:59 GMT
This is still an early stage, so I've decided to change the thread heading from the original title, Bad Movies We Love, Tolerate or Flatly Reject. Truly bad movies don't usually attract a cult following without at least being redeemed by silliness or inappropriate earnestness, since it's often the gap between intention and execution which makes them so inexplicably enjoyable. I liked kims' introduction of the idea of guilty pleasures, because pleasure really is the primary factor in our enjoyment of these movies, the exhilarating pleasure we can get in surfing a wave of cinematic misguidedness or in finding fun in what's popularly considered "lowbrow" (kims' Mr. Magoo's Christmas Carol). There's also sometimes a bit of the craven in the way some films are conceived and marketed for exploitation purposes, which gives us the opportunity to see through the charade and to turn the tables on them by having a good laugh. I suppose there's an element of guilt in our not always taking filmmakers at their word and in taking enjoyment in their misjudgment or ineptness, so Guilty Pleasures it is.
Coming Soon:
Lots of teenage attitude, wayward youth on a crime spree, stolen toasters, and more, more, more!
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Post by I Love Melvin on Nov 15, 2023 15:27:31 GMT
Live Fast, Die Young (1958): Bad Girl Cinema par excellence.
 This one was directed by Paul Henreid, famous for lighting Charlotte Vale's cigarettes in earlier days. He directed Girls on the Loose the same year, which I have yet to see but it's definitely calling my name. He later reunited with Bette when he directed her in Dead Ringer (1964), in which she played twin sisters whose rivalry over a man turned deadly.
The ads and the trailer overuse the word "beat", an amalgam of those two favorite 1950's bogeymen, "commies" and "juvenile delinquents", but there's nothing truly "beat" here other than some stilted, vaguely nihilistic dialogue and a smattering of hipster phrases. The "bad girl" genre was a subset of the J.D. moves which were cranked out for young audiences in the 50's, until they decided in the 60's that they liked beach parties better. It was the era in which Mamie Van Doren reigned supreme, pumping jet fuel into the genre. Norma Eberhart, whose unapologetic petulance and her mastery of the declarative sentence make her perfect for the role, takes the reins this time as high school girl Jill, whom we first meet being laughed at by fellow students and the teacher for letting her mind wander in class. She later crabs to a friend on the phone that "the only way to beat all this school jazz is to be important" and that "we don't have to take all this lip beating from everybody", adding "Did you hear about Fred? He's got it made. He stole a car." She's obviously aspirational, which worries big sister Kim (Mary Murphy), who had to quit school at fifteen to keep the family afloat after her mother skipped out with a salesman, leaving the sisters with a deadbeat dad who couldn't seem to connect with the work force. ("All the unemployment agency has is jobs for slobs.") Jill takes a stand ("It's for the birds. I've had it.") and books, checking into a cheap hotel, telling the desk clerk she has no money but "I'll clean your room." He gets the message but later when he makes his move she panics and is rescued by another boarder, Mary, who tells Jill she can stay with her. ("I've been crowded all my life. What's another night?") It happens that Mary works in the local clip joint and offers to show Jill the ropes, separating all the local sad sacks from their hard-earned dough. Jill has found her calling, but Mary cautions her "You've got to keep yourself fluid...and fast. That's why I live in a rabbit patch like this", which I guess is the kind of "beat" dialogue the ads were promising. But impulsive Jill goes rogue and rolls the next guy for his whole wallet, necessitating a quick getaway. Back at home, Kim has filed a missing person report and quarreled with their father. "Making me work in that joint since I was fifteen and not go to school, being pawed and groped by a bunch of slimes. I hate men. Something I'll never forget as long as I live. A friend of yours. I was fifteen." Yikes. Even told in 1950's censor-proof shorthand, that's pretty harrowing. Kim decides to track down Jill by herself and heads to San Francisco.
Meanwhile, Jill hits the highway in her best bad girl drag (See poster) and thumbs a ride. She's picked up by a trucker, asking him "How far do you wield this rig? My target's Vegas." He asks how old she is. "Legal age.", then "Relax. You'll live longer." as she cuddles up and rubs his shoulders. Fade out to God knows what and next we see him dropping her off in a tank town famous for The Paradise, just the kind of place to tide her over until she can make enough to get to Vegas.
Kim finds Mary in San Francisco, then goes to track Jill down at The Paradise. She also hitchhikes, but it goes south when the guy mauls her, leaving her to be rescued by a bunch of gentlemanly tramps living in the woods, who pool their last cash so Kim can buy a bus ticket. Frank Capra couldn't have done it better.
At The Paradise Jill has been taken under the wing of Vi, a "good-hearted tramp"-type with a baby, but Jill's up to her old tricks and really goes rogue this time, clipping a recent Vegas winner for all $2000, plus his jewelry and car. She unloads the stuff with a fence, who steers her toward a petty crime ring run by Sue out of an antique store, a respectable front for dirty doings. Sue is cozy with smooth criminal Rick (Mike Connnors) and together they take Jill on a tour of their crime hub, which is located behind a hidden door in the antique shop, just like the door at the back of the funeral parlor which opens into a speakeasy in Some Like It Hot. Inside they find a bunch of teens hard at work sorting through tables and tables of "hot' appliances (toasters and mixers...seriously). You know, stuff that fell off a truck. We meet the gang leader and, oh boy, it's movie tough guy Troy Donahue, in some pretty hilarious reverse type-casting. Later, Rick shows off his penthouse to Jill, who declares :"What a raunchy layout. You can see the whole world in front of you." Rick: "Sue sure has an eye for alert personnel." Jill: "I wasn't undersold. I can do anything Sue said I can do." Alert personnel indeed. Sue and the gang enter and Sue, the big badass crime boss lady, intones "What a job wrapping all those toasters." Love that line. If I weren't too old to safely roll on the floor with laughter, I would have. They've all assembled to run through the plans for a big heist. The plot is to waylay a gazillion $$ in diamonds, which are due to be shipped through the local post office because, as everyone knows, the U.S. mail is the safest way to ship diamonds. Uh huh. They're no dummies...We'll see about that...so they plan a dry run, during which some of the gang with jackhammers create a diversion outside the post office while a flotilla of their cool jalopies creates a traffic jam. What could go wrong? Film afficionados will no doubt note that this scene takes place in that one backlot street at Universal which you see in every single one of their movies.
Meanwhile, Kim has come to town and, failing to convince Jill to give up her life of crime, asks to come onboard for the big caper. They and the rest of the gang apply for jobs at the post office and, even though none of them have Social Security cards to obtain these jobs at a government agency, they're all hired on the spot because, I guess, they have nice faces? When the time comes, one of them will deactivate the alarm with a fire extinguisher (Jill's idea) while the others make the grab and flee in the cool cars. S POILER: On the big day Kim has a change of heart and wrestles Jill for the fire extinguisher, allowing the alarm to go off and the plot is foiled. In court a judge pronounces probation and "psychiatric treatment" for the juveniles, including Troy, who wielded a gun during the attempted robbery so what gives? Hollywood justice, apparently. No word on Big Sue and Rick. So the scofflaws are dealt with and Mr. and Mrs. America can breathe easily again. Cinema history can chalk up another bad girl dealt with, so I guess the ball's back in your court, Mamie Van Doren.
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Post by kims on Nov 15, 2023 20:39:55 GMT
I must watch this. It's got everything snobbish coast critics hate.
Here's one of my guilty pleasures GOOD MORNING MISS DOVE. Jennifer Jones in the title role, Robert Stack, Marshall Thompson, Chuck Conners.
Miss Dove, did women like this ever exist? She gives up her dreams of marriage to go to work and pay off her embezzler father' debts. She converts from vivacious young woman to a real stick in the mud. She becomes a teacher and oh, my word, there is a posture correcting chair if you slouch. Students who have grown and have children now, ask her to correct a child's habit of chewing her braids. Miss Dove never smiles, is always remote, even when she provides a child with much needed help. In spite of her distant, strict rules for living, she is revered.
I've never seen any person that rigid ever be beloved, but so be it, this is the movies. Great cast, I don't sense anyone thinking this is a pile of ... as they deliver their lines. The staging and film work are exceptional, but the story reminds me of 1800's books like FLOWER OF YOUTH and other books written to develop children into high moral beings.
I don't understand why I watch this whenever I see it airs. I often think "Lady, let down your hair, smile, accept compliments" Maybe I hope to understand why this woman is so revered? My mother's favorite book was GIRL OF THE LIMBERLOST. The female lead character is a martyr in her adherences to a strict narrow set of rules for living. Her sacrifices are incredible, same as Miss Dove's. Maybe I hope one day to comprehend these women my mother so adored.
I'm trying to decide to recommend it to watch at least one. Sure, if you want to pass a couple of hours with fluff and Victorian morality-go for it
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Post by I Love Melvin on Nov 15, 2023 22:20:25 GMT
I must watch this. It's got everything snobbish coast critics hate. Here's one of my guilty pleasures GOOD MORNING MISS DOVE. Jennifer Jones in the title role, Robert Stack, Marshall Thompson, Chuck Conners. Miss Dove, did women like this ever exist? She gives up her dreams of marriage to go to work and pay off her embezzler father' debts. She converts from vivacious young woman to a real stick in the mud. She becomes a teacher and oh, my word, there is a posture correcting chair if you slouch. Students who have grown and have children now, ask her to correct a child's habit of chewing her braids. Miss Dove never smiles, is always remote, even when she provides a child with much needed help. In spite of her distant, strict rules for living, she is revered. I've never seen any person that rigid ever be beloved, but so be it, this is the movies. Great cast, I don't sense anyone thinking this is a pile of ... as they deliver their lines. The staging and film work are exceptional, but the story reminds me of 1800's books like FLOWER OF YOUTH and other books written to develop children into high moral beings. I don't understand why I watch this whenever I see it airs. I often think "Lady, let down your hair, smile, accept compliments" Maybe I hope to understand why this woman is so revered? My mother's favorite book was GIRL OF THE LIMBERLOST. The female lead character is a martyr in her adherences to a strict narrow set of rules for living. Her sacrifices are incredible, same as Miss Dove's. Maybe I hope one day to comprehend these women my mother so adored. I'm trying to decide to recommend it to watch at least one. Sure, if you want to pass a couple of hours with fluff and Victorian morality-go for it is available in a really poor print on YouTube. I don't know if TCM has ever shown it, but I recorded it from AMC back when they really showed old movies, and transferred it from VHS to disc. I just watched Good Morning, Miss Dove last week; Fox Movie Channel has been showing it. I agree with your observation that nobody that uncompromisingly rigid would ever be beloved in that universal a way. The movie tries too hard to make its points and after the first few you know that each of the supporting characters will eventually have their "moment" when we learn their backstory, what makes them tick, and how their story ties into hers. Miss Dove's moment comes at the beginning and I guess that's supposed to carry us through the whole film, but it sure would have been nice to see at least a small crack in the facade somewhere along the way. Some actresses have a knack for showing what they're thinking on their face without saying it outright, but I'm not sure Jennifer Jones had that knack in this case, though I like her as an actress. Drama doesn't demand severity and that's where I think the movie falls short. (And maybe the book? I haven't read it.) It's the kind of movie which can fascinate you without your understanding why it has that effect. A Puzzling Movie We Love? |
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Post by kims on Nov 16, 2023 14:18:10 GMT
A movie that I watch when it airs, but I haven't seen recently is THE CARPETBAGGERS with George Peppard and Alan Ladd. It's the same category as Harlow. It's salacious, appeals to our baser natures. If you see it somewhere, grab a bowl of popcorn, bottle of wine and watch the not too veiled Peppard character as Hughes, watch him slash and burn his way to where he wants to be. You might want a napkin in case you take a sip of wine when something strikes you as funny.
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Post by I Love Melvin on Nov 17, 2023 0:34:44 GMT
A movie that I watch when it airs, but I haven't seen recently is THE CARPETBAGGERS with George Peppard and Alan Ladd. It's the same category as Harlow. It's salacious, appeals to our baser natures. If you see it somewhere, grab a bowl of popcorn, bottle of wine and watch the not too veiled Peppard character as Hughes, watch him slash and burn his way to where he wants to be. You might want a napkin in case you take a sip of wine when something strikes you as funny. Yeah, that's a doozie. It's so overheated that you really notice the more subdued performances by Alan Ladd and Elizabeth Ashley. I'm a real fan of movies of that era because A) I grew up on them and B) they came at a time when the dreaded Production Code was disintegrating and everybody knew it, so filmmakers were starting to "go there", but then pulling their punches and hedging their bets by not going too far for the more conservative markets. It made for movies which promised more than they delivered, making them at least slightly ridiculous from a modern perspective, hence the laughter. It's fun to me to watch them walk up the line but them pull back, playing chicken with the censors. It was a kind of bait-and-switch, trying to convince audiences that they saw more than they actually did. Literature was far more explicit at the time, so moviegoers who had read the book would come to something like The Carpetbaggers with a fuller picture in their minds and would be able to "get" what the moviemakers couldn't quite yet show and tell. Popcorn and wine? I want to come watch movies at your house. |
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Post by kims on Nov 17, 2023 21:34:55 GMT
Come on down. I'm not sure if there is a correct wine with popcorn. I drink all types.
You'd think living with the smell of popcorn while I managed theaters for 12 years, you'd think I'd be over popcorn. But once a week I pick a film to watch with PC. Today was a PC day to watch A LEAGUE OF THEIR OWN. My dog gets PC too, no wine.
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