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Post by kims on Apr 11, 2023 0:34:57 GMT
Watched WESTWARD THE WOMEN this afternoon. There's a scene that the wagon train gets to the desert and wagonmaster Robert Taylor tells them to get rid of their stuff. Why do they do this? And if to cross the desert an empty wagon is necessary, and the wagonmaster has made this run before, why does he let them take the rocking chairs, etc in the first place? I've seen the same thing in other films about wagontrains like THE WAY WEST.
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Post by topbilled on Apr 11, 2023 15:12:41 GMT
Watched WESTWARD THE WOMEN this afternoon. There's a scene that the wagon train gets to the desert and wagonmaster Robert Taylor tells them to get rid of their stuff. Why do they do this? And if to cross the desert an empty wagon is necessary, and the wagonmaster has made this run before, why does he let them take the rocking chairs, etc in the first place? I've seen the same thing in other films about wagontrains like THE WAY WEST.
There's a great scene in the Paramount western CALIFORNIA (1947) where Ray Milland tells everyone the same thing. And as they move on, the camera cuts back to a shot of all sorts of furniture and houseware items that have been dumped on the ground. |
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Post by jamesjazzguitar on Apr 12, 2023 15:50:54 GMT
Watched WESTWARD THE WOMEN this afternoon. There's a scene that the wagon train gets to the desert and wagonmaster Robert Taylor tells them to get rid of their stuff. Why do they do this? And if to cross the desert an empty wagon is necessary, and the wagonmaster has made this run before, why does he let them take the rocking chairs, etc in the first place? I've seen the same thing in other films about wagontrains like THE WAY WEST. I really love this movie and just saw parts of it (while channel surfing), a few days back. IF I recall correctly there was a rock slide that caused an area to be more steep than it normally is. Thus Taylor had to order folks to lighten their wagon load. Of course, I could be mistaken, and there is no factual basis for that scene; I.e. it was put in to create drama and in that way the scene worked. My favorite part of this scene is after Faye Emerson is the first one to take the reins of a wagon up and down the steep grade (proving to the other women, it can be done), Taylor says to her: if you weren't so big, I'd hug you. Emerson gives a glance that is a combination of thanks and screw you pal! |
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Post by kims on Apr 12, 2023 20:42:34 GMT
Great scene with Faye Emerson. Later in the film they have to cross the desert with no indication that this was a detour. I was curious because this happens in several films bringing to my curiosity: if you dump your stuff and don't have a husband waiting as in WESTWARD THE WOMEN, how do you survive at your destination? They get rid of pots pans chairs clothes. When you get to your new home what are you going to wear, cook in?
I don't remember which TCM guest programmer said "It's movie logic" I think of that whenever something doesn't make sense to me.
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Post by topbilled on Apr 13, 2023 14:02:13 GMT
Great scene with Faye Emerson. Later in the film they have to cross the desert with no indication that this was a detour. I was curious because this happens in several films bringing to my curiosity: if you dump your stuff and don't have a husband waiting as in WESTWARD THE WOMEN, how do you survive at your destination? They get rid of pots pans chairs clothes. When you get to your new home what are you going to wear, cook in? I don't remember which TCM guest programmer said "It's movie logic" I think of that whenever something doesn't make sense to me.
In a film like WESTWARD THE WOMEN, they would have a husband lined up in California who obviously had money. Wagon Trains were not for the poor. They were for the middle class and upper class...those that could afford it or had their expenses paid by someone else in exchange for something.
Usually in a western of this sort, when they have to leave things behind to lighten the load, it is not what they will have to replace financially, it is what they are relinquishing that signified their old life back east and retains sentimental value. |
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Post by kims on Apr 14, 2023 21:33:44 GMT
I didn't know wagon trains were for middle class and wealthy. Aren't migrations usually comprised of middle class and poor? The Irish came to America with no money, same for the Italians, Russian and Polish Jews, freed slaves to the north, the Russian aristocracy who lost everything in the revolution? Wagon trains were a different kind of migration?
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Post by jamesjazzguitar on Apr 15, 2023 18:21:09 GMT
I didn't know wagon trains were for middle class and wealthy. Aren't migrations usually comprised of middle class and poor? The Irish came to America with no money, same for the Italians, Russian and Polish Jews, freed slaves to the north, the Russian aristocracy who lost everything in the revolution? Wagon trains were a different kind of migration? Immigrants that came from Europe tended to stay on the East Coast, with most only be able to afford to go west as far as Chicago (which is why still today Chicago is part of the so-called mid-west). It cost a lot of money to purchase a wagon and all the supplied for a 100 day or more trip west, and then there was the cost one had to pay to the wagon train company. It took a few generations for newly arrived European immigrants (e.g., Italians) to gain wealth while living on the east coast so they could send their offspring west to places like California, and by then it was by rail. Therefor most of the folks on Wagon Trains were of English or German decent; immigrant sects that were already well established in the USA by 1870. |
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Post by topbilled on Apr 24, 2023 1:18:05 GMT
I didn't know wagon trains were for middle class and wealthy. Aren't migrations usually comprised of middle class and poor? The Irish came to America with no money, same for the Italians, Russian and Polish Jews, freed slaves to the north, the Russian aristocracy who lost everything in the revolution? Wagon trains were a different kind of migration? Immigrants that came from Europe tended to stay on the East Coast, with most only be able to afford to go west as far as Chicago (which is why still today Chicago is part of the so-called mid-west). It cost a lot of money to purchase a wagon and all the supplied for a 100 day or more trip west, and then there was the cost one had to pay to the wagon train company. It took a few generations for newly arrived European immigrants (e.g., Italians) to gain wealth while living on the east coast so they could send their offspring west to places like California, and by then it was by rail. Therefor most of the folks on Wagon Trains were of English or German decent; immigrant sects that were already well established in the USA by 1870.
Also part of what they were paying the Wagon Train company was what we might call 'protection money.' There was safety in numbers, especially if they ran into hostile situations.
There's an interesting episode in the last season of the Wagon Train TV series where Bethel Leslie plays a woman who refuses to pay the company for all its services because she's kind of a cheapskate. And she decides to go it alone with her wagon, but following closely behind the train, sort of using them to shield her from danger. And John McIntire's character is not pleased about this, because the other families are paying for what he and his men provide to get them safely across...and he feels she should also be paying the full amount. |
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Post by BunnyWhit on May 3, 2023 15:59:26 GMT
Another thing that doesn't always get mentioned in westerns is that as westward expansion grew, trading posts cropped up along the trails. Some merchants were unscrupulous and frightened wagon trainers into purchasing more for their journey than they needed. These items were later discarded along the trail. Fort Laramie, Wyoming eventually earned the name Camp Sacrifice because so much of this dumping of goods occured along the Oregon Trail.
I should think a wagon train full of women as in Westward the Women would be a prime target for this.
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Post by gerald424 on May 17, 2023 1:33:19 GMT
I once saw a documentary about this wealthy family relocating west (I can't remember the name but it was a well known family), and they brought an iron double decker wagon. Pulled by oxen. They just had to be special. And of course once they hit soft ground they had to abandon all that.
I think most had no idea what they were getting themselves into. Basically traveling into the wilderness.
In the documentary about the Dust Bowl, they mention the promoters named one of the towns in the prairie a word that means "woods" just to make the travelers think there was timber there.
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