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Post by Lucky Dan on Dec 8, 2022 1:38:57 GMT
Released in Europe as 1+1.
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Post by I Love Melvin on Jan 27, 2023 14:31:55 GMT
I forget when or where but somewhere along the line I saw it and it's a mess. The Stones were used to get people in the door, but their sequences seemed interminable and boring while watching them and there wasn't a whole lot being revealed other than Brian Jones' pathetic state. I think this movie kind of solidified the idea that the Stones were playing with fire with this particular song and helped gin up the aura of danger and violence around them which had its unfortunate peak moment at Altamont. This kind of "guerilla" filmmaking never really appealed to me; I'd rather watch a movie where someone took the time to think through their themes and present them in some kind of organized way. As rag-tag as John Waters was in the beginning, he had much better control over his vision than Godard did with this unfocused and deliberately horrific piece of exploitation.
The Stones movie I'd love to see is Cocksucker Blues, which followed the lads around on their 1972 American tour. There were all sorts of legal barriers to seeing the film once the band realized how bad it made them look. The tour supported Exile on Main St., my favorite Stones album, and my personal feeling is that they were at the height of their powers as a rock band at that time, but the movie apparently focused less on that and more on various "antics" involving the band and their hangers-on, including people like Truman Capote, who was inexplicably on the plane.
OK, so I just checked YouTube and it's there, so there goes my afternoon. Kind of nervous because I'm not really expecting to like it from what I've heard.
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Post by Fading Fast on Jan 27, 2023 15:44:04 GMT
Many years ago, I saw the Godard movie and my memory is that seeing the Stones record their song was fascinating, but all the other stuff was late 1960s nonsense that I think I started fast-forwarding through after awhile.
I Love Melvin, I'm looking forward to your thoughts on "Cocksucker Blues."
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Post by Lucky Dan on Feb 14, 2023 16:06:36 GMT
I forget when or where but somewhere along the line I saw it and it's a mess. The Stones were used to get people in the door, but their sequences seemed interminable and boring while watching them and there wasn't a whole lot being revealed other than Brian Jones' pathetic state. I think this movie kind of solidified the idea that the Stones were playing with fire with this particular song and helped gin up the aura of danger and violence around them which had its unfortunate peak moment at Altamont. This kind of "guerilla" filmmaking never really appealed to me; I'd rather watch a movie where someone took the time to think through their themes and present them in some kind of organized way. As rag-tag as John Waters was in the beginning, he had much better control over his vision than Godard did with this unfocused and deliberately horrific piece of exploitation. The Stones movie I'd love to see is Cocksucker Blues, which followed the lads around on their 1972 American tour. There were all sorts of legal barriers to seeing the film once the band realized how bad it made them look. The tour supported Exile on Main St., my favorite Stones album, and my personal feeling is that they were at the height of their powers as a rock band at that time, but the movie apparently focused less on that and more on various "antics" involving the band and their hangers-on, including people like Truman Capote, who was inexplicably on the plane. OK, so I just checked YouTube and it's there, so there goes my afternoon. Kind of nervous because I'm not really expecting to like it from what I've heard.
I had the same reaction to 1+1: Godard trying to be politically relevant but coming off as pointless. Still, interesting for the curiosity of seeing the Stones recording with Brian at Olympic during the analog days.
Truman Capote was traveling with the Stones on assignment for Rolling Stone. He didn't deliver the commissioned piece - surprise, right? - so RS sent Andy Warhol to interview him about the experience. (Read that here.)
Keith in his autobiography Life, which I recommend if you haven't read it, recalled an incident involving Capote that is passed along in Far Out magazine thusly:
Richards later recalled in his 2010 autobiography Life, stating: “I remember, back at the hotel, kicking Truman’s door. I’d splatter it with ketchup I’d picked up off a trolley. Come out, you old Queen. What are you doing round here? You want cold blood?” Klenfer remembers that Keith teamed up with the head of the PR agency to trash Truman’s door with some stolen ketchup “so it looked like blood”. Klenfer then alleges that she remembered the practical joke coming with an added threat: “I’m going to beat the shit out of you.”
As one might expect, Capote did not come out of his room and that might’ve added to the fact that the varied stories from the Stones’ tour never found the pages of Rolling Stone in their entirety.
I see Cocksucker Blues is still up on You Tube. I'd never heard of it before but I will have a look now. I've got a guitar by the chair so I might try some play along. Always a pleasant way to spend a morning. Please share your thoughts on it if you care to.
Appending this: I'm 50 minutes into Cocksucker Blues but I knew after 10 I will have to do more research about it. This is bizarre. I recognize Bianca and Ahmet Ertegun, and I'm curious about who these others are. Was that Anita Pallenberg ...umm...you know? |
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Post by vannorden on May 22, 2023 3:04:14 GMT
I forget when or where but somewhere along the line I saw it and it's a mess. The Stones were used to get people in the door, but their sequences seemed interminable and boring while watching them and there wasn't a whole lot being revealed other than Brian Jones' pathetic state. I think this movie kind of solidified the idea that the Stones were playing with fire with this particular song and helped gin up the aura of danger and violence around them which had its unfortunate peak moment at Altamont. This kind of "guerilla" filmmaking never really appealed to me; I'd rather watch a movie where someone took the time to think through their themes and present them in some kind of organized way. As rag-tag as John Waters was in the beginning, he had much better control over his vision than Godard did with this unfocused and deliberately horrific piece of exploitation. The Stones movie I'd love to see is Cocksucker Blues, which followed the lads around on their 1972 American tour. There were all sorts of legal barriers to seeing the film once the band realized how bad it made them look. The tour supported Exile on Main St., my favorite Stones album, and my personal feeling is that they were at the height of their powers as a rock band at that time, but the movie apparently focused less on that and more on various "antics" involving the band and their hangers-on, including people like Truman Capote, who was inexplicably on the plane. OK, so I just checked YouTube and it's there, so there goes my afternoon. Kind of nervous because I'm not really expecting to like it from what I've heard.
However, I respectfully disagree regarding the sequences of The Stones at Olympic Studios. The footage is remarkable for capturing the evolution of one of the seminal compositions of the sixties. From a ho-hum blues number to Rocky Dzidzornu on the congas, we even witness the "woo woo" moment with Anita Pallenberg and Marianne Faithfull helping provide backing vocals. Moreover, it gives us a peak into The Stones during this critical Jimmy Miller era that would kickstart a string of albums rivaled by few. As for Brian Jones, he appears less in a "pathetic state" as he does futile and uninvolved, practically relegated to nothing and a far cry from his glory years in the group.
Admittedly, I have not seen Robert Frank's Cocksucker Blues in almost 15 years. Although I own a bootleg copy on DVD, I have yet to feel compelled to return to it. The "shock value" has not held up, and much of it feels performative, especially Keith and Bobby Keys throwing the TV off the hotel balcony, a ritual The Who had been practicing for years. However, Frank does a fascinating job of blending the degenerates (the drug dealers, the groupies, etc.) with The Stones; for that reason, it never feels like The Stones are the sole stars of this show––just part of the congregation of debauchery and sleazy excess. Frank even gives handheld cameras to the whole entourage, including Mick Jagger. |
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Post by I Love Melvin on May 22, 2023 23:24:42 GMT
However, I respectfully disagree regarding the sequences of The Stones at Olympic Studios. The footage is remarkable for capturing the evolution of one of the seminal compositions of the sixties. From a ho-hum blues number to Rocky Dzidzornu on the congas, we even witness the "woo woo" moment with Anita Pallenberg and Marianne Faithfull helping provide backing vocals. Moreover, it gives us a peak into The Stones during this critical Jimmy Miller era that would kickstart a string of albums rivaled by few. As for Brian Jones, he appears less in a "pathetic state" as he does futile and uninvolved, practically relegated to nothing and a far cry from his glory years in the group.
Admittedly, I have not seen Robert Frank's Cocksucker Blues in almost 15 years. Although I own a bootleg copy on DVD, I have yet to feel compelled to return to it. The "shock value" has not held up, and much of it feels performative, especially Keith and Bobby Keys throwing the TV off the hotel balcony, a ritual The Who had been practicing for years. However, Frank does a fascinating job of blending the degenerates (the drug dealers, the groupies, etc.) with The Stones; for that reason, it never feels like The Stones are the sole stars of this show––just part of the congregation of debauchery and sleazy excess. Frank even gives handheld cameras to the whole entourage, including Mick Jagger. I agree that the song is one of the seminal compositions of the sixties, so I'll trust your take on it rather than my own memory, which is really more of an impression after all this time. You're right that they were moving into a very productive era for the band (and for musicians in general) so I'd like to see the footage again, though I'm not nearly as enthused about rewatching the film itself. At that time in my life I was also paying close attention to film criticism, which had become quite an industry, but I think in this case my aversion to the film was genuinely my own. And I agree with everything you said about Cocksucker Blues. |
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Post by vannorden on May 25, 2023 0:46:05 GMT
However, I respectfully disagree regarding the sequences of The Stones at Olympic Studios. The footage is remarkable for capturing the evolution of one of the seminal compositions of the sixties. From a ho-hum blues number to Rocky Dzidzornu on the congas, we even witness the "woo woo" moment with Anita Pallenberg and Marianne Faithfull helping provide backing vocals. Moreover, it gives us a peak into The Stones during this critical Jimmy Miller era that would kickstart a string of albums rivaled by few. As for Brian Jones, he appears less in a "pathetic state" as he does futile and uninvolved, practically relegated to nothing and a far cry from his glory years in the group.
Admittedly, I have not seen Robert Frank's Cocksucker Blues in almost 15 years. Although I own a bootleg copy on DVD, I have yet to feel compelled to return to it. The "shock value" has not held up, and much of it feels performative, especially Keith and Bobby Keys throwing the TV off the hotel balcony, a ritual The Who had been practicing for years. However, Frank does a fascinating job of blending the degenerates (the drug dealers, the groupies, etc.) with The Stones; for that reason, it never feels like The Stones are the sole stars of this show––just part of the congregation of debauchery and sleazy excess. Frank even gives handheld cameras to the whole entourage, including Mick Jagger. I agree that the song is one of the seminal compositions of the sixties, so I'll trust your take on it rather than my own memory, which is really more of an impression after all this time. You're right that they were moving into a very productive era for the band (and for musicians in general) so I'd like to see the footage again, though I'm not nearly as enthused about rewatching the film itself. At that time in my life I was also paying close attention to film criticism, which had become quite an industry, but I think in this case my aversion to the film was genuinely my own. And I agree with everything you said about Cocksucker Blues. What gets lost in Robert Frank's preoccupancy with hedonism and backstage debauchery is how scintillating The Stones were on their 1972 American Tour, better known as the "Stones Touring Party" (STP). They played at one of the most feverish paces imaginable, sometimes twice a day, and, musically, were at the peak of their prowess (only outdone in Europe, 1973). Still, one would never discern that watching Cocksucker Blues, alas. For me, it's viewed best alongside Ladies and Gentleman: The Rolling Stones (1973), a concert film shot on 16mm that documents four blistering shows in Texas in 1972, providing a glimpse into why the Mick Taylor years were the band's apex. |
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Post by NoShear on Jul 1, 2023 16:30:01 GMT
What gets lost in Robert Frank's preoccupancy with hedonism and backstage debauchery is how scintillating The Stones were on their 1972 American Tour, better known as the "Stones Touring Party" (STP). They played at one of the most feverish paces imaginable, sometimes twice a day, and, musically, were at the peak of their prowess (only outdone in Europe, 1973). Still, one would never discern that watching Cocksucker Blues, alas. For me, it's viewed best alongside Ladies and Gentleman: The Rolling Stones (1973), a concert film shot on 16mm that documents four blistering shows in Texas in 1972, providing a glimpse into why the Mick Taylor years were the band's apex. Like electric guitar sustain notes, vannorden, that's all that still resonates with my viewing of LADIES & GENTLEMEN the Rolling Stones many years ago: Mick Taylor!! Your warp-ish avatar reminds me of how I miss Windows Movie Maker. (It never seems available with a computer purchase package in recent years.) |
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Post by vannorden on Jul 1, 2023 19:55:09 GMT
What gets lost in Robert Frank's preoccupancy with hedonism and backstage debauchery is how scintillating The Stones were on their 1972 American Tour, better known as the "Stones Touring Party" (STP). They played at one of the most feverish paces imaginable, sometimes twice a day, and, musically, were at the peak of their prowess (only outdone in Europe, 1973). Still, one would never discern that watching Cocksucker Blues, alas. For me, it's viewed best alongside Ladies and Gentleman: The Rolling Stones (1973), a concert film shot on 16mm that documents four blistering shows in Texas in 1972, providing a glimpse into why the Mick Taylor years were the band's apex. Like electric guitar sustain notes, vannorden, that's all that still resonates with my viewing of LADIES & GENTLEMEN the Rolling Stones many years ago: Mick Taylor!! Your warp-ish avatar reminds me of how I miss Windows Movie Maker. (It never seems available with a computer purchase package in recent years.) Taylor's membership with The Stones elevated the band's performance to unprecedented heights. He was 6 feet tall, blonde-haired, and impossibly stoic on stage––almost immovable and never interfering with the Mick and Keith show. However, he certainly made up for his lack of showmanship in his melodic playing, and once the shackles came loose on the 1972 and 1973 Tours, he soared every night and played an integral role in the Stones' "Greatest Rock 'n Roll Band in the World" moniker. Here's a favorite of mine: |
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Post by vannorden on Jul 1, 2023 20:12:56 GMT
What gets lost in Robert Frank's preoccupancy with hedonism and backstage debauchery is how scintillating The Stones were on their 1972 American Tour, better known as the "Stones Touring Party" (STP). They played at one of the most feverish paces imaginable, sometimes twice a day, and, musically, were at the peak of their prowess (only outdone in Europe, 1973). Still, one would never discern that watching Cocksucker Blues, alas. For me, it's viewed best alongside Ladies and Gentleman: The Rolling Stones (1973), a concert film shot on 16mm that documents four blistering shows in Texas in 1972, providing a glimpse into why the Mick Taylor years were the band's apex. Like electric guitar sustain notes, vannorden, that's all that still resonates with my viewing of LADIES & GENTLEMEN the Rolling Stones many years ago: Mick Taylor!! Your warp-ish avatar reminds me of how I miss Windows Movie Maker. (It never seems available with a computer purchase package in recent years.) Oh, great comment on my avatar. I have not used Windows Movie Maker in years, but that is a funny recollection. The still (if anyone is curious) comes from Jesus Franco's Das Frauenhaus ( Blue Rita, 1977), a real Euro-trash, pulpy oddity full of garish colors and plot twists. |
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Post by NoShear on Jul 2, 2023 15:33:39 GMT
Like electric guitar sustain notes, vannorden, that's all that still resonates with my viewing of LADIES & GENTLEMEN the Rolling Stones many years ago: Mick Taylor!! Your warp-ish avatar reminds me of how I miss Windows Movie Maker. (It never seems available with a computer purchase package in recent years.) Oh, great comment on my avatar. I have not used Windows Movie Maker in years, but that is a funny recollection. The still (if anyone is curious) comes from Jesus Franco's Das Frauenhaus ( Blue Rita, 1977), a real Euro-trash, pulpy oddity full of garish colors and plot twists. I knew I ran the risk of revealing my film ignorance but, nevertheless, wanted to acknowledge your avatar which fits what I've come to think of with your posts, vannorden: dimensional with some esoteric hipness. |
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