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Post by I Love Melvin on Feb 17, 2024 13:24:52 GMT
I like that Babe is remembering her true self more now with the cancer diagnosis and treatments, which she understands are mostly futile. She's still adhering to the "beauty" rituals but it seems almost to be in a calmly meditative way, a repetition of the familiar and not so much of a compulsion anymore. She'd speaking her mind, especially with Slim when she objects to her bullying the others about Truman; she makes the argument for forgiveness, which seems to be prompted by facing her own death. She literally says that life is too short. She's also becoming more forthright with her husband and exercising the same level of forgiveness with him, even for the fling with her friend (Slim), because she knows him and knows he'll need someone after her death. I've really been zeroing in on Babe more and more as the character by which to judge this whole mess Truman created. Naomi Watts is doing a fantastic job of showing the character's calm under more pressure than ever, as well as the realization of her essential aloneness because of the kinds of life choices she's made, which kim ticked off really well. She's adrift without the comfort Truman offered her, even though she can now also see his self-interest was at work in their relationship. My eye goes right to that silent face now.
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Post by kims on Feb 22, 2024 12:07:01 GMT
Watched last night's episode. In it and the other episodes, the swans repeatedly pull out their compacts and powder their faces at the table. Especially in a high-end restaurant, there would have been some gasps. Women did not adjust makeup at the table. They excuse themselves, commonly with at least one other woman, and go to the ladies lounge. (It's never a restroom in high-end establishments.) This irks me every time the swans do this on the show-it's a huge no-no.
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Post by Guest on Feb 22, 2024 17:22:28 GMT
Watched last night's episode. In it and the other episodes, the swans repeatedly pull out their compacts and powder their faces at the table. Especially in a high-end restaurant, there would have been some gasps. Women did not adjust makeup at the table. Tey excuse themselves, commonly with at least one other woman, and go to the ladies lounge. (It's never a restroom in high-end establishments.) This irks me every time the swans do this on the show-it's a huge no-no. That's a great catch, kims. Babe Paley wouldn't be sitting in the middle of La Cote Basque touching up her make up. Women I grew up with used to say they were going to powder their nose as a polite way to excuse themselves from the table. What did you think of the episode overall? The whole James Baldwin intervention never happened which is fine as an artistic license. It gave Truman a chance to give his take. The actor playing Baldwin did well, I think, especially with the voice. However, the ending made my eyes roll with him hiring someone to go to Central Park, kill and cook a swan. They show Truman working on the book, but I don't think he actually wrote any more chapters. |
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Post by kims on Feb 22, 2024 21:00:26 GMT
There are still people who think Capote finished the book and it's in a safe deposit box somewhere. People who sifted through his papers after his death found drafts and rewrites of the chapters printed in Esquire, but no new material in any form. Majority opinion is that he told people he was working on it, but did no further work after the swans spurned him.
I think Wed.'s episode could have done without interjecting snippets of the swans and then have an episode with Truman's statements amplified by longer scenes demonstrating the swans' true personalities. Personally, I'm surprised a woman as controlled and disciplined as Babe would let herself get drunk in front of anyone, especially the children of her peers. I can see her locking herself in her suite to do so during the party, but admit it would not be as dramatic a sequence. Not making those issues a big complaint-I'm hooked waiting for the last 3 episodes.
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Post by Guest on Feb 23, 2024 2:24:18 GMT
I thought the same thing ,that Babe wouldn't get stumbling drunk at her daughter's birthday party. This is not the same woman who wouldn't let her husband see her without her hair and makeup done. I also don't think that the Paleys would have an ugly fight over his infidelities in front of Truman. Fighting behind closed doors while Truman overheard, I can see.
My question is, are these inconsistencies because Truman is telling these stories to Baldwin and embellishing? Or is it the mini series taking liberties with the truth? Either way, I'm curious to see what happens next.
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Post by kims on Feb 23, 2024 13:41:44 GMT
I've noted some inconsistencies-what's the saying: don't let the truth get in the way of a good story. Truman embellished often. It's been too long ago, but I'll try to get the gist correct. Truman was friends with Johnny Carson's ex-wife Joanna. When Truman appeared on the TONIGHT SHOW, he made snide remarks about Johnny's treatment of her. Cut to commercial, return from commercial and Truman is gone. The next time Gore Vidal was on the show (the friendship between Vidal and Truman ended for similar reasons the swans turned their backs on Tru) Gore joked that the ficus tree on the set ate Truman.
The series is a work of fiction: I must pay attention if that old warning that similarity to real people is coincidence, which was used on films obviously about real people, is there any warning on this series. While the series is done well, there is that element of Confidential magazine or National Enquirer tactics that makes people want to know these stories. There have been a few moments when I've thought "I don't think that's right" And I've thought it is too bad that people watching will think the show is entirely factual (someday someone may say that Truman did have those conversations with Baldwin, for instance) even if they know this is only based on fact. The downside of fame is, as Sinatra reportedly told his daughter, you can't correct everyone.
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Post by I Love Melvin on Feb 23, 2024 18:23:12 GMT
It seems as though the Baldwin section was intended to represent the workings of Truman's own mind and conscience, since it's bracketed by Truman lying in bed after having taken all those pills, so the implication I guess is that it was all a dream brought on by his attempt on his life and that the invention is justified because it's not represented as real. So Baldwin would be Truman's inner self trying to rally? I thought the Baldwin character was extremely well written, but I too am puzzled by where all this is coming from. Lawrence Leamer is listed in the credits, so is there stuff in his research which didn't make it into his book or are we really looking at fabrications pure and simple? There's a lot "revealed" which only Truman could have known, so is there a legitimate first hand, or even second hand source? Dramatic license isn't anything new in dealing with biographical material for film or television, but the specificity of some of this stuff really begs the question of where it came from. The show also seems to be intermittently switching sides, at some points seeming to favor Truman and at others the women, in terms of the implied critiques. But it's such a compelling, multi-faceted story and the actors are so excellent that I'm hooked too.
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Post by kims on Feb 23, 2024 22:34:25 GMT
Your post prompted me to bring out Leamer's book. The bibliography is extensive. Maybe other material comes from other biographers? Any author would potentially have material which was not included in a book because of chances of lawsuits. If Leamer had such material not included in the book, I don't think he would be free to include it in the series. In the bibliography is listed a book that might be interesting. By George Plimpton the book is TRUMAN CAPOTE: IN WHICH VARIOUS FRIENDS, ENEMIES, ACQUAINTANCES, AND DETRACTORS RECALL HIS TURBULENT CAREER. Wow, is that the longest book title ever?
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Post by I Love Melvin on Feb 24, 2024 0:06:16 GMT
Your post prompted me to bring out Leamer's book. The bibliography is extensive. Maybe other material comes from other biographers? Any author would potentially have material which was not included in a book because of chances of lawsuits. If Leamer had such material not included in the book, I don't think he would be free to include it in the series. In the bibliography is listed a book that might be interesting. By George Plimpton the book is TRUMAN CAPOTE: IN WHICH VARIOUS FRIENDS, ENEMIES, ACQUAINTANCES, AND DETRACTORS RECALL HIS TURBULENT CAREER. Wow, is that the longest book title ever? The Plimpton book was basically a set of interview segments with Capote intimates (and some not so), arranged in a narrative fashion. He used the same style in his book about Edie Sedgewick and it's surprisingly effective in telling a story. The Capote book was used as the basis for the movie Infamous (2006) and interviews from the book with the women and others like Jack Dunphy were recreated by actresses (Sigourney Weaver, Hope Davis, Isabella Rossellini) and interspersed with the dramatic sequences. so some of the story we're watching unfold in the show is told in the women's own words in that book. Now you've got me wanting to go back and reread some of that stuff myself. And also the sections of Answered Prayers which were published, to refresh my memory as to how pointedly malicious they may or may not have been. I think you're right to bring up the specter of lawsuits, which may have protected some of the story while people were still alive, and maybe after. |
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Post by kims on Feb 24, 2024 23:48:54 GMT
Okay, I've ordered Plimpton's book. Melvin, your post pushed me over the edge with curiosity!!
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Post by I Love Melvin on Feb 25, 2024 13:36:38 GMT
I've noted some inconsistencies-what's the saying: don't let the truth get in the way of a good story. Truman embellished often. It's been too long ago, but I'll try to get the gist correct. Truman was friends with Johnny Carson's ex-wife Joanna. When Truman appeared on the TONIGHT SHOW, he made snide remarks about Johnny's treatment of her. Cut to commercial, return from commercial and Truman is gone. The next time Gore Vidal was on the show (the friendship between Vidal and Truman ended for similar reasons the swans turned their backs on Tru) Gore joked that the ficus tree on the set ate Truman. The series is a work of fiction: I must pay attention if that old warning that similarity to real people is coincidence, which was used on films obviously about real people, is there any warning on this series. While the series is done well, there is that element of Confidential magazine or National Enquirer tactics that makes people want to know these stories. There have been a few moments when I've thought "I don't think that's right" And I've thought it is too bad that people watching will think the show is entirely factual (someday someone may say that Truman did have those conversations with Baldwin, for instance) even if they know this is only based on fact. The downside of fame is, as Sinatra reportedly told his daughter, you can't correct everyone. I think some of our reservations may come from the feeling that Ryan Murphy himself has developed fixations on the older actresses he uses repeatedly for his various projects, in a way mirroring Truman's obsession with the Swans. It may be that he's overly concerned with giving them red meat to chew on by amping up the drama among the Swans through invention or exaggeration. I don't know if you saw the Hollywood mini-series he did for Netflix, in which he heavily and without credit "borrowed" from the recently published memoir by Scotty Bowers, Full Service, detailing his career of "servicing" movie stars and others out of his gas station/bordello. Murphy basically appropriated the story as his own and populated it with some real characters, such as Rock Hudson, but used them in broadly fictitious ways. So some of that same crafty, possibly unwarranted, invention may be at work here as well. There's no doubt that Murphy can put on quite a show, but I'm not sure he's as reliable in terms of historical accuracy. |
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Post by kims on Feb 27, 2024 23:27:18 GMT
Melvin, I've got Plimpton's book, went to the sections about the Black and White Ball. Take a look, it's interesting who thought it was a bore and who thought it was great. There was controversy that the ball was held when our boys were dying in VietNam. I don't recall that as an issue. The Met had galas, and there was fashion week, even the Oscars and Emmys with people dressed in designer clothes and all those jewels. I was a teen, keenly aware of the war and the draft numbers of my friends. My memory fails, I don't remember any calls to dampen various celebrations.
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Post by I Love Melvin on Feb 28, 2024 0:49:12 GMT
Melvin, I've got Plimpton's book, went to the sections about the Black and White Ball. Take a look, it's interesting who thought it was a bore and who thought it was great. There was controversy that the ball was held when our boys were dying in VietNam. I don't recall that as an issue. The Met had galas, and there was fashion week, even the Oscars and Emmys with people dressed in designer clothes and all those jewels. I was a teen, keenly aware of the war and the draft numbers of my friends. My memory fails, I don't remember any calls to dampen various celebrations. I pulled it off the shelf today and also had a look. (My books are two deep on the shelves to save space so I've been putting it off.) There wasn't as much from the women post- La Cote Basque as I'd thought. Babe had died by the time of Plimpton's book, and Ryan Murphy didn't include Gloria Guiness and Marella Agnelli in his cast, so it's basically Slim, C. Z. and Lee who are the people we've been watching who were interviewed by him. Gloria Vanderbilt and Carol Matthau were also Swan-adjacent, as was Joanne Carson, so there's some info from those quarters. One thing about Plimpton's style of writing is that it relies on the veracity of the people he's interviewing, so I guess it's a little open-ended in terms of what we can rely on. Now that I have it off the shelf I'll probably go back and reread the whole thing.
The Ball probably would have been boring to people like us but the alternative for all those "lucky" people was to not be there, not have their names in the paper, not have bragging rights, etc. Apparently, some people who weren't invited suddenly found "previous engagements" out of town until it was over, so they wouldn't have to absorb the shame of not being there. Yikes. It was in magazines so I was aware of it at the time, but my attention was elsewhere in those days too. But the public is usually good at compartmentalizing, so the war and the Ball could exist simultaneously. |
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Post by Guest on Feb 29, 2024 19:52:46 GMT
I liked the use of CZ and then Babe shopping for hats and gloves only to find that the hat shop is going out of business and the glove department no longer exists. The swans, like their accessories, are woefully out of date.
Similarly, Truman in his own version of Vertigo, makes Kerry O'Shea into a mini Babe only to be told by Richard Avedon that he is behind the times as well. (The actress playing Kerry O'Shea was Ella Beatty, daughter of Warren Beatty and Annette Benning.)
The side story of Rick, the handy man Truman takes up with, seemed like a retread. At least Rick was nice and not a violent clod like John O'Shea. I did wonder, other than money/celebrity what would attract Rick to a middle-aged, out of shape, messy alcoholic. I guess I'm naive. Did Rick ever send Tru that teddy bear in a sailors suit?
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Post by kims on Feb 29, 2024 21:25:28 GMT
Last night's episode was great at showing that after Capote exposes the swan's world, in a few years they were practically dinosaurs. I would have liked a bit more of Studio 54 to emphasize the cultural change of less regimentation, more anti-establishment. C.Z. complaining about being photographed at Studio 54 didn't quite hit the mark that celebrity trumped social class in the 70's. (Gloria Swanson was photographed there!) The makeover of Kerry O'Shea when she was at the photographer's studio showed fashion change, but not the cultural change.
The Rick story was thin. We don't know him at all. Maybe the "retread" was to show that Truman didn't really fit in the Swan's world. Truman was like Wallis Simpson's dogs-just a pet, he was a jester for the royalty. I would have liked to know a bit more about Rick. Hmm, I'll see if there is any mention of a teddy bear in Plimpton's book.
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