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Post by topbilled on Dec 11, 2023 16:08:40 GMT
I finished watching season 8 of the original Hawaii Five O and skipped ahead to season 12, since I had already seen 9, 10 and 11. I was fearing season 12, because to be honest the reviews for the later episodes are relatively unkind on the IMDb...but to my surprise, I have been enjoying most of them.
One thing that is definitely different in the final season of the program is that there have been significant cast changes. Some of this was unavoidable. Costar James MacArthur had tired of his role playing sidekick Danny Williams and wanted out at the end of season 11. Some of this also had to do with the fact that CBS waited till the last minute to renew the show, and Jack Lord had actually made a pilot for another series in the intervening period which did not include MacArthur. Anyway, MacArthur was finished with the show and when the network brought it back for one more season, he was not included.
In addition to Danno's absence, the final season occurs without Chin Ho Kelly (Kam Fong) since Chin was killed off at the end of season 10. Duke Lukela (Herman Wedemeyer) who had been a recurring presence since season 5, was upgraded to a regular character in season 8. Duke does appear in the 12th season but his participation seems limited.
Steve McGarrett's participation is also limited, since actor Jack Lord appears to have scaled back his work load. In this final season, McGarrett functions in more of an administrative capacity. Several of the episodes I watched from the beginning of the season have his new team (played by William Smith, Sharon Farrell and Moe Keale) doing the legwork, along with occasional assistance from Duke.
I imagine these sudden cast changes alienated some of the series' core fans...but to me, these changes are not a deal breaker and the writing is still strong enough to sustain interest. Also, they are still using well-known guest stars to play the villains. I do think it's good that some 'new blood' comes into the Five O unit. One thing I especially like is how Smith's character and Farrell's character have clearly defined backstories, particularly Smith's character. Looking back on the earlier episodes, I don't think we knew much about Danny's origins or his background. His personal life wasn't ever shown unless he happened to be dating a suspect.
Of course, this isn't the only long-running TV program that had a cast shakeup near the end. Sometimes cast changes are necessary to refocus the themes and main concepts. Other times, the cast changes are not exactly needed and serve to hasten a show's demise. In this case, I don't think Hawaii Five O was badly hurt by the cast changes at the end.
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Post by jinsinna13 on Dec 12, 2023 14:30:43 GMT
The original Hawaii Five-O had a rough final season because of the departure of James MacArthur. MacArthur quit because he wanted to do other things, but his absence was very noticeable. What made it worse was his character fell victim to the Chuck Cunningham Syndrome.
Zulu, who played Kono, quit after the fourth season due to a falling out with Jack Lord. I don't remember how the falling out happened.
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Post by jinsinna13 on Dec 12, 2023 14:39:40 GMT
Both M*A*S*H and My Three Sons survived for additional season despite the departures of various cast members. (McLean Stevenson, Wayne Rogers, Larry Linville, and Gary Burghoff for the former; Tim Considine and Don Grady for the latter.)
Two and Half Men did survive after Charlie Sheen was fired, but Sheen's departure hurt the show.
This thread wouldn't be complete without mentioning the Darrin switch midway through Bewitched. Dick York's departure hurt the show.
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Post by topbilled on Dec 12, 2023 15:19:09 GMT
The original Hawaii Five-O had a rough final season because of the departure of James MacArthur. MacArthur quit because he wanted to do other things, but his absence was very noticeable. What made it worse was his character fell victim to the Chuck Cunningham Syndrome.
Zulu, who played Kono, quit after the fourth season due to a falling out with Jack Lord. I don't remember how the falling out happened.
Personally I think they didn't directly mention Danno's departure, since they were probably keeping the door open for a return later, even if just a guest return. Maybe if Danno had popped back up again, it would have helped prevent the show's drop in the ratings.
As for Zulu/Kono, yes he just disappeared after season 4 and was never heard from again. There was a replacement for him named Ben who was featured in seasons 5-7, and he also left quietly without any mention of what happened to the character. The only regular costar whose exit played out on screen was Chin's since Chin was killed off in the season 10 finale. Ironically, a TV movie in 1997 undid his death and Chin was suddenly now alive! |
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Post by topbilled on Dec 12, 2023 15:23:34 GMT
Both M*A*S*H and My Three Sons survived for additional season despite the departures of various cast members. (McLean Stevenson, Wayne Rogers, Larry Linville, and Gary Burghoff for the former; Tim Considine and Don Grady for the latter.)
Two and Half Men did survive after Charlie Sheen was fired, but Sheen's departure hurt the show.
This thread wouldn't be complete without mentioning the Darrin switch midway through Bewitched. Dick York's departure hurt the show.
We've been talking about sudden cast changes. But some shows, especially the long-running ones, gradually change over time because every season or two, an original cast member leaves to pursue greener pastures (typically they try to transition from primetime TV to movies). I think ER is a good example of this. By the end, most of the original cast members had jumped ship...and in George Clooney's case, he had become a bonafide movie star and there was no turning back. |
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Post by BingFan on Dec 12, 2023 18:50:11 GMT
Both M*A*S*H and My Three Sons survived for additional season despite the departures of various cast members. (McLean Stevenson, Wayne Rogers, Larry Linville, and Gary Burghoff for the former; Tim Considine and Don Grady for the latter.)
Two and Half Men did survive after Charlie Sheen was fired, but Sheen's departure hurt the show.
This thread wouldn't be complete without mentioning the Darrin switch midway through Bewitched. Dick York's departure hurt the show.
We've been talking about sudden cast changes. But some shows, especially the long-running ones, gradually change over time because every season or two, an original cast member leaves to pursue greener pastures (typically they try to transition from primetime TV to movies). I think ER is a good example of this. By the end, most of the original cast members had jumped ship...and in George Clooney's case, he had become a bonafide movie star and there was no turning back.
Barney Miller was another show that lost some of its original cast but maintained its high quality. I missed Abe Vigoda, Jack Soo, and Gregory Sierra after they departed (sadly, Soo had died), but their quasi-replacements, Steve Landesberg and Ron Carey, did a great job playing new members of the squad. (The producers were smart to integrate them into the cast gradually.)
I never thought MASH was as funny after Stevenson and Rogers left, and I quit watching it regularly after Linville departed. I know the actors may have found the new semi-serious approach more challenging and satisfying, but I thought the later seasons lost the outstanding humor that distinguished the first four seasons. (I eventually saw the entire series multiple times when it went into syndication.)
I fully agree that Dick York was far superior to Dick Sargent. Bewitched was never as good after York left. |
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Post by jamesjazzguitar on Dec 12, 2023 19:25:52 GMT
Cheers must be one of the most successful sit-coms that had two major casting changes but still received strong ratings over its 11 year run.
Shelley Long - Kirstie Alley
Nicholas Colasanto (Coach) - Woodly Harrelson (Colasanto died in mid-season 1985).
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Post by dianedebuda on Dec 13, 2023 11:58:27 GMT
I'll add NCIS to the list. With the passing of David McCallum, none of the original cast now remains, but it still has strong ratings.
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Post by topbilled on Dec 13, 2023 12:31:22 GMT
A few outliers:
Shows where there is only one main cast members. Examples: Columbo or Murder She Wrote. If that one main star leaves, then the show ends, or else the producers have to create a spinoff with a new sleuth.
Shows where there is an ensemble cast and while there may be a breakout star or two, there isn't meant to be a main star. Long-running soap operas fall into this category. The British medical soap Casualty has had one male nurse character since the beginning (the show began almost 38 years ago in 1986). But it was just announced that Derek Thompson who plays nurse Charlie is retiring from acting. They're about to begin his exit story which will run through February or March. After he's gone, there won't be any original cast members left on the program. But he was never really the star (he didn't appear in every single episode), and the show will easily continue without him.
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Post by topbilled on Dec 13, 2023 12:40:03 GMT
I never watched Two and a Half Men but I can see how the show might have seemed flat after he left. I agree about Dick York and Dick Sargent. I always felt Sargent was rather bland in the role of Darrin on Bewitched. He didn't have the energy York had on screen. And York had oodles of chemistry with Liz that just couldn't be duplicated with any replacement.
We've been talking about sudden cast changes. But some shows, especially the long-running ones, gradually change over time because every season or two, an original cast member leaves to pursue greener pastures (typically they try to transition from primetime TV to movies). I think ER is a good example of this. By the end, most of the original cast members had jumped ship...and in George Clooney's case, he had become a bonafide movie star and there was no turning back.
Barney Miller was another show that lost some of its original cast but maintained its high quality. I missed Abe Vigoda, Jack Soo, and Gregory Sierra after they departed (sadly, Soo had died), but their quasi-replacements, Steve Landesberg and Ron Carey, did a great job playing new members of the squad. (The producers were smart to integrate them into the cast gradually.)
I never thought MASH was as funny after Stevenson and Rogers left, and I quit watching it regularly after Linville departed. I know the actors may have found the new semi-serious approach more challenging and satisfying, but I thought the later seasons lost the outstanding humor that distinguished the first four seasons. (I eventually saw the entire series multiple times when it went into syndication.)
I fully agree that Dick York was far superior to Dick Sargent. Bewitched was never as good after York left.
One thing I am finding a smidge annoying when reading the IMDb reviews of those final season episodes of Hawaii Five O is that some of the core audience is so fixated on Danny Williams and so hung up on James MacArthur leaving the series at the end of season 11, they can't recognize how some of the episodes without Danno are actually just as good in terms of writing, cinematography and guest performances as the earlier stuff. Yes, there are a few clunkers, but even the previous seasons with Danny had some clunkers. I find it a bit extreme how some fans get stuck in the past and expect a show to continue the same way forever without any cast changes. That is just not the reality of television production.
Now if we were to talk about The Golden Girls spinning off into The Golden Palace because Bea Arthur quit and they had to find a way to continue without her character Dorothy, then that's kind of another thing. Though, there is a two-part episode of The Golden Palace where Bea/Dorothy makes a return visit. And watching that special two-parter, you can see that with Bea Arthur in the mix, the dynamic of the ensemble is much better...and without her, yes, the show is flat. But what could they do? She was no longer interested in being a regular cast member. For the sake of the other stars' careers and livelihoods, they were trying to find a way to keep the gravy train going. |
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Post by topbilled on Dec 13, 2023 12:58:38 GMT
Cheers must be one of the most successful sit-coms that had two major casting changes but still received strong ratings over its 11 year run. Shelley Long - Kirstie Alley Nicholas Colasanto (Coach) - Woodly Harrelson (Colasanto died in mid-season 1985).
One series that I enjoyed as a kid growing up in the 80s, and it's still a "guilty pleasure" for me is the Nell Carter sitcom Gimme a Break! The first four seasons had Nell as the African American housekeeper buttinsky in a Polish-American family led by gruff and tough cop Karl (played by Dolph Sweet). Karl was affectionately called 'Chief.' Carter & Sweet had very good rapport and were close friends off screen. Sweet was diagnosed with cancer at the beginning of season 4. Midway through the season, he appears less, usually in one obligatory scene, and he barely made it through the season, dying a few days after they filmed the final episode of S4.
The first episode of season 5 deals with the Chief's death and Nell basically taking over the family (since the original premise was that Karl had been widowed, so the kids were already without a mother and now they were without a father too). In addition to Nell taking control of the family, the writers beefed up Telma Hopkins' role as Nell's BFF/frenemy Addie. So Addie became more of Nell's foil the way the Chief had been in the earlier seasons.
Personally, I think the show really grew a lot during season 5. Yes, things were no longer the same, but it was realistic the way a genial sitcom incorporated a main character's death into the story and showed how Nell was becoming more responsible as a surrogate mother and how the teenaged daughters were also maturing after their dad's death. Gimme a Break! continued for an additional season. Season 6 is not quite as good as season 5, but this show proves to me that the loss of one of the main stars doesn't have to signal the end of a show. If the writing is still good and the performances are still authentic, the audience will hang in there with it. |
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Post by topbilled on Dec 14, 2023 14:09:26 GMT
After writing on this thread yesterday about Chico and the Man I realized that I had very fleeting memories of the show. I was very young in the late 70s, but I remember my parents being fans of Freddie Prinze and Tony Orlando (who was a friend of Freddie's and guest-starred on Chico). But after Freddie's suicide, my parents stopped watching the show as I think a lot of people did.
It has seldom been syndicated, and Warner Brothers only issued one DVD containing just six of the best episodes. There were 88 episodes produced over four seasons. So this show has really fallen out of the public eye.
I did considerable reading up on the series yesterday and I watched two rare episodes that were uploaded on YouTube. One featured Freddie from season 2, and one featured his replacement Gabriel Melgar from the beginning of season 4. In the comments section under one of these uploads, a viewer wrote that Tubi just added the whole series for streaming. I checked and sure enough, Tubi does have all 88 episodes.
Though I had other things to do yesterday, I ended up watching a few more episodes of Chico and the Man and it really is a funny and nicely performed show. Jack Albertson is great. So are the other costars, like Scatman Crothers and Della Reese. They even had Charo as a special guest star for about five episodes in the middle of season 4, playing Melgar's aunt.
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Post by gerald424 on Dec 15, 2023 4:51:21 GMT
There's a British program airing now called Death in Paradise (2011- 2024) that airs here on PBS.
Light hearted crime solving show set in the Caribbean. Great show. The scenery might be better than the plots. Problem is, they can't seem to keep any of their cast on the show. Because they film in the Caribbean, the cast members are far from home and the end up missing their families. And also , they can't take any other job opportunities that might pop up because they are so far away from London. So after a few seasons, they move on.
At this point, only a couple minor characters are around from the first two seasons. Yet, the show keep on chugging along.
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Post by BingFan on Dec 16, 2023 18:13:42 GMT
There's a British program airing now called Death in Paradise (2011- 2024) that airs here on PBS.
Light hearted crime solving show set in the Caribbean. Great show. The scenery might be better than the plots. Problem is, they can't seem to keep any of their cast on the show. Because they film in the Caribbean, the cast members are far from home and the end up missing their families. And also , they can't take any other job opportunities that might pop up because they are so far away from London. So after a few seasons, they move on.
At this point, only a couple minor characters are around from the first two seasons. Yet, the show keep on chugging along.
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Post by gerald424 on Dec 16, 2023 22:14:22 GMT
There's a British program airing now called Death in Paradise (2011- 2024) that airs here on PBS.
Light hearted crime solving show set in the Caribbean. Great show. The scenery might be better than the plots. Problem is, they can't seem to keep any of their cast on the show. Because they film in the Caribbean, the cast members are far from home and the end up missing their families. And also , they can't take any other job opportunities that might pop up because they are so far away from London. So after a few seasons, they move on.
At this point, only a couple minor characters are around from the first two seasons. Yet, the show keep on chugging along.
Actually, the last inspector had a really touching story arc and very emotional ending. And a few have returned for cameos.
It seems they have made spinoffs based on characters who have returned back to England. Although, they aren't showing in America yet.
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