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Post by sewhite2000 on Jul 31, 2023 18:15:14 GMT
Just reminded me of a routine comic Billy Crystal used to do. He'd announce, "My daughterCame up to me the other day and asked, "Hey, dad, did you know Paul McCartney was in a band before Wings?" Then he'd bend forward a little and go into his old Jew character, "Hock! Pitoo! "Yes, Yes. Sit down dollink, and let Papa tell you all bout that old good time band, the BEATLES!" "Hack! Patoo!" The joke about Paul McCartney being in a band before Wings goes back at least to my first developing a musical consciousness around 1979 or so. Honestly, while the Beatles still have a healthy PR system, I Personally can't fathom anyone under the age of 40 has ever heard of Wings. I'm at that age also. Wings was very popular during my early childhood (I was given my first 45's in 1973), I didn't get into the Beatles until the 80's. Personally, I never really classified Wings as a band. I don't understand his psychology, but Paul clearly wanted the semblance of another band. I guess that's because it was what most artists did in those days. but when you've got one guy writing and singing lead on 99 per cent of the stuff and playing all the instruments except lead guitar (but taking that over any time he wanted to), well, that was pretty much a solo act IMO. I had a friend who dutifully studied which albums and singles were attributed to "Wings", "Paul McCartney & Wings" and "Paul McCartney", and he filed his collection accordingly, but in my head, it was always just "Paul McCartney". I was very slow to appreciate the Beatles. When John Lennon was killed, I distinctly remember thinking to myself, "Well, at least it wasn't Paul," which I've regretted ever since. I had another friend who had the red and blue albums from 1973 on vinyl. They had been purchased by his dad, who passed them along. For those who don't know, they were basically all the singles and a few of the most famous album tracks in order. A power pop tour de force. I first heard them around 1987, and while I was already aware of many of the songs, it was a life-changing experience for me to hear them all in order like that. " |
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Post by BunnyWhit on Jul 31, 2023 22:29:15 GMT
One positive that can come out of these Youtube reaction videos is that it is opening up an entire world of cinema to younger generations. I remember watching a reaction video the other day of a self proclaimed Gen-Z "filmmaker" reacting to Raging Bull. He said he had never seen it and when the text "directed by Martin Scorsese," appears, he states, "Oh, wow, Scorsese directed this, I didn't know." How could you be a "filmmaker," with a college background presumably in film (because he does use a lot of filmmaking terminology), and not know Scorsese directed Raging Bull? I think the next generation of filmmakers are seriously lacking fundamentals in film history. If these type of movie reactions can open the door to the average viewer AND even educate self-proclaimed younger filmmakers, all the better for it.
I used to feel inadequate about the books I'd not read. Then, when a professor friend was at my house, he marveled at all the wonderful books on my shelf that HE'D never read. That was exactly the eye-opener I needed. Though we both had a wealth of 19th-century British and early 20th-century American novels on our shelves in common, my copies of The Divine Comedy, Slaughterhouse-Five, and my much adored collected works, essays, and letters of Flannery O'Connor made him feel inadequate.
None of us will ever live long enough to see all the films we should, read all the books we should, or hear all the albums we should. For me, the biggest distinguishing factor is that I know I have holes in these areas. I also know that I've missed things that I don't even know about, but that's ok because I am still working on it. Perhaps that should be the biggest take away.
(And I could have read at least a dozen other books on my "must read" list if I hadn't read Moby Dick so many times. Still, what will my brother and I read together this fall? Hint: it has a white whale.....)
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Post by sepiatone on Aug 1, 2023 15:28:30 GMT
Damn, you kids make me feel old. Bobby Rydell and The Everly Brothers were popular during my early childhood. And they weren't given to me, but I bought my first 45's in '59(Johnny Horton's "Battle Of New Orleans" and Bobby Darin's "Mack The Knife") And got into The Beatles during my first hearing of "I Want To Hold Your Hand" in Dec. '63. Hack! Pitoo!!  Sorry. I was responding to Sewhite's and Gerald's posts at the bottom of the previous page. Senior moment no doubt. Sepiatone |
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Post by Andrea Doria on Aug 2, 2023 11:32:25 GMT
Damn, you kids make me feel old. Bobby Rydell and The Everly Brothers were popular during my early childhood. And they weren't given to me, but I bought my first 45's in '59(Johnny Horton's "Battle Of New Orleans" and Bobby Darin's "Mack The Knife") And got into The Beatles during my first hearing of "I Want To Hold Your Hand" in Dec. '63. Hack! Pitoo!! Sorry. I was responding to Sewhite's and Gerald's posts at the bottom of the previous page. Senior moment no doubt. Sepiatone Now you've done it. All day long I'll be singing, "In 1814 I took a little trip..." I know every word and that it was written by a teacher who was trying to help his class learn. Why didn't I have teachers like that? |
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Post by sewhite2000 on Aug 2, 2023 15:47:21 GMT
Damn, you kids make me feel old. Bobby Rydell and The Everly Brothers were popular during my early childhood. And they weren't given to me, but I bought my first 45's in '59(Johnny Horton's "Battle Of New Orleans" and Bobby Darin's "Mack The Knife") And got into The Beatles during my first hearing of "I Want To Hold Your Hand" in Dec. '63. Hack! Pitoo!! Sorry. I was responding to Sewhite's and Gerald's posts at the bottom of the previous page. Senior moment no doubt. Sepiatone Now you've done it. All day long I'll be singing, "In 1814 I took a little trip..." I know every word and that it was written by a teacher who was trying to help his class learn. Why didn't I have teachers like that? I did! I had a fourth grade teacher who liked to set the lesson material to contemporary tunes. When we did a lesson on dinosaurs, she wrote the unforgettable classic, "I feel my heart start tremblin' whenever bracheosaurus is around" and many other similar tunes. |
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Post by cineclassics on Aug 3, 2023 12:51:28 GMT
One positive that can come out of these Youtube reaction videos is that it is opening up an entire world of cinema to younger generations. I remember watching a reaction video the other day of a self proclaimed Gen-Z "filmmaker" reacting to Raging Bull. He said he had never seen it and when the text "directed by Martin Scorsese," appears, he states, "Oh, wow, Scorsese directed this, I didn't know." How could you be a "filmmaker," with a college background presumably in film (because he does use a lot of filmmaking terminology), and not know Scorsese directed Raging Bull? I think the next generation of filmmakers are seriously lacking fundamentals in film history. If these type of movie reactions can open the door to the average viewer AND even educate self-proclaimed younger filmmakers, all the better for it.
I used to feel inadequate about the books I'd not read. Then, when a professor friend was at my house, he marveled at all the wonderful books on my shelf that HE'D never read. That was exactly the eye-opener I needed. Though we both had a wealth of 19th-century British and early 20th-century American novels on our shelves in common, my copies of The Divine Comedy, Slaughterhouse-Five, and my much adored collected works, essays, and letters of Flannery O'Connor made him feel inadequate.
None of us will ever live long enough to see all the films we should, read all the books we should, or hear all the albums we should. For me, the biggest distinguishing factor is that I know I have holes in these areas. I also know that I've missed things that I don't even know about, but that's ok because I am still working on it. Perhaps that should be the biggest take away.
(And I could have read at least a dozen other books on my "must read" list if I hadn't read Moby Dick so many times. Still, what will my brother and I read together this fall? Hint: it has a white whale.....)
My criticism isn't about someone who hasn't seen a particular classic film. There are many popular classics I have yet to see. My issue largely is more concerned with the pattern I see emerging with younger filmmakers and film studies majors who essentially don't even have a rudimentary understanding of Classic Hollywood, or even things prior to the 1990s. For instance, that same Gen-Z filmmaker I referenced, has watched several other classic films on his channel and each time, he admits he doesn't know who any of the actors are and then just laughs and says, "it's from the 1960 guys, so cut me some slack." There is almost a brazen ignorance and lack of curiosity in discovering decades worth of filmmaking. I truly think we could be nearing the demise of legitimate film criticism and film history as we know it. |
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Post by jamesjazzguitar on Aug 3, 2023 14:43:42 GMT
My criticism isn't about someone who hasn't seen a particular classic film. There are many popular classics I have yet to see. My issue largely is more concerned with the pattern I see emerging with younger filmmakers and film studies majors who essentially don't even have a rudimentary understanding of Classic Hollywood, or even things prior to the 1990s. For instance, that same Gen-Z filmmaker I referenced, has watched several other classic films on his channel and each time, he admits he doesn't know who any of the actors are and then just laughs and says, "it's from the 1960 guys, so cut me some slack." There is almost a brazen ignorance and lack of curiosity in discovering decades worth of filmmaking. I truly think we could be nearing the demise of legitimate film criticism and film history as we know it. I see this in other areas like music and musicians and sports. In most cases these know-little up and coming talents are put in their place by others in their industry. E.g. at the jazz guitar forum. This is especially true when they make lame comments like 'I was born in NNNN, so cut me some slack'. Hey, if they are open to gaining knowledge, those in-the-know will assist them, but if they act like it doesn't really matter, we tend to be dismissive of them. I often bring up art in this regard. Older art works are never considered dated in fact they are often held in the highest esteem. |
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Post by sepiatone on Aug 3, 2023 15:59:59 GMT
My criticism isn't about someone who hasn't seen a particular classic film. There are many popular classics I have yet to see. My issue largely is more concerned with the pattern I see emerging with younger filmmakers and film studies majors who essentially don't even have a rudimentary understanding of Classic Hollywood, or even things prior to the 1990s. For instance, that same Gen-Z filmmaker I referenced, has watched several other classic films on his channel and each time, he admits he doesn't know who any of the actors are and then just laughs and says, "it's from the 1960 guys, so cut me some slack." There is almost a brazen ignorance and lack of curiosity in discovering decades worth of filmmaking. I truly think we could be nearing the demise of legitimate film criticism and film history as we know it. I see this in other areas like music and musicians and sports. In most cases these know-little up and coming talents are put in their place by others in their industry. E.g. at the jazz guitar forum. This is especially true when they make lame comments like 'I was born in NNNN, so cut me some slack'. Hey, if they are open to gaining knowledge, those in-the-know will assist them, but if they act like it doesn't really matter, we tend to be dismissive of them. I often bring up art in this regard. Older art works are never considered dated in fact they are often held in the highest esteem. True. For example, I've never heard anyone complain that the Mona Lisa is "dated". Or the paintings of Manet or Monet. Or that Hemingway and Steinbeck are "dated". But art-wise I've mostly read the "dated" complaint in the old TCM forum and a few times in here when it comes to movies. Makes you wonder how a book written in 1940 can't be considered "dated", but a movie made that same year gets called "dated" pretty often. I often wonder what makes the difference in some people's minds. Sepiatone |
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Post by jamesjazzguitar on Aug 3, 2023 16:42:46 GMT
I see this in other areas like music and musicians and sports. In most cases these know-little up and coming talents are put in their place by others in their industry. E.g. at the jazz guitar forum. This is especially true when they make lame comments like 'I was born in NNNN, so cut me some slack'. Hey, if they are open to gaining knowledge, those in-the-know will assist them, but if they act like it doesn't really matter, we tend to be dismissive of them. I often bring up art in this regard. Older art works are never considered dated in fact they are often held in the highest esteem. True. For example, I've never heard anyone complain that the Mona Lisa is "dated". Or the paintings of Manet or Monet. Or that Hemingway and Steinbeck are "dated". But art-wise I've mostly read the "dated" complaint in the old TCM forum and a few times in here when it comes to movies. Makes you wonder how a book written in 1940 can't be considered "dated", but a movie made that same year gets called "dated" pretty often. I often wonder what makes the difference in some people's minds. Sepiatone Good point that literature is viewed like art. My POV is that talent and the fine work that comes from that talent can never be 'dated'. Like you correctly have pointed out, the 'dated' POV is in the mind of the viewer, and not the work. |
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nickandnora34
Full Member
I saw it in the window and couldn't resist it.
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Post by nickandnora34 on Aug 4, 2023 0:17:46 GMT
I've been subscribed to Jay and Amber's channel for a little while now, and legitimately I have zero doubts that they are being genuine in their reactions. They've come so far with both movies and music; I will admit I watch some of these movie reaction channels on occasion because I find them comforting. My dream is to work in the film industry one day, and I just want to soak up as many movie-related things as possible. It's nice to know what clicks with audiences and what doesn't. Interesting to hear other points of view.
*Re: "I don't know who this actor is, cut me some slack..." Is it really that hard to do a quick Google search lol
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Post by BunnyWhit on Aug 4, 2023 14:35:49 GMT
It's not just film, art, music, literature. It's basically anything that came before them that seems to hold no interest for the youngers of today. They 1) don't know about much of anything that came before them, and B) don't care to know about much of anything that came before them. It's the most depressing and discouraging thing I've ever seen.
I don't understand the "I haven't seen/read/viewed/heard of ....., so cut me some slack" mentality. This shows zero interest, initiative, curiosity, creativity, awareness, passion, and some other lacking qualities that are even less attractive to mention. It's also extremely selfish. Learning about what came before is an act of sharing. It requires patience, empathy, imagination, and at least a modicum of reverence. I don't see youngers displaying these abilities. I should think it must feel lonely to be of this ilk.
I've been trying to remember the first time I saw Casablanca. I think I was seven, but I don't remember for sure. What I do remember is that I was completely mesmerized by the faces of the actors, what they wore, how they moved. They spoke beautifully in unstrained tones with lovely diction. The whole film was a feast for my eyes and ears. What a shame that anyone would rather be "cut some slack" than experience the excitement a well-made film provides.
Could it be that the human desire to be connected to the past is going the way of the dodo? Or counting back change?
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Post by sepiatone on Aug 4, 2023 16:02:19 GMT
I can see that attitude individually, but an entire generation with that mindset is disturbing. I know well that I'm not the only one here, or in my generation("boomer") that has always taken an interest in the past history of how things were in the days before I came along. In movies in particular, I take a significant interest in movies made during the year I was born(1951) in order to know somewhat of what the country and times were like then. I know they're not always an exact representation of the times, but close enough. Plus older movies help me understand what other people went through in earlier times that in a way helps me appreciate how far we've come and also appreciate what those before me had to go through to get me where I am now, and also to get me where I started from. Like some old maxim claimed: "If you don't know where you came from, you can't know where you're going." Or words to that effect.  Sepiatone |
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Post by NoShear on Aug 4, 2023 19:13:28 GMT
One positive that can come out of these Youtube reaction videos is that it is opening up an entire world of cinema to younger generations. I remember watching a reaction video the other day of a self proclaimed Gen-Z "filmmaker" reacting to Raging Bull. He said he had never seen it and when the text "directed by Martin Scorsese," appears, he states, "Oh, wow, Scorsese directed this, I didn't know." How could you be a "filmmaker," with a college background presumably in film (because he does use a lot of filmmaking terminology), and not know Scorsese directed Raging Bull? I think the next generation of filmmakers are seriously lacking fundamentals in film history. If these type of movie reactions can open the door to the average viewer AND even educate self-proclaimed younger filmmakers, all the better for it.
And to be honest, some of us came into it wanting to be the next James Cameron (post-Terminator) not the next Martin Scorsese. It's generational, the ones you look up to and want to emulate.
Also, because there are so many decades of cinema history with so much content in each year, it is possible to miss a whole genre or director or star and the work associated with that genre, director or star if your focus or interest is on something else in film.
After I graduated, I went to live abroad for about two years. When I came back, I continued to educate myself in film...but this meant catching up on new releases and also digging into film history into those areas I had missed in film school. And it always surprises me when I come across something I probably should have heard of before, but haven't.
Oh, and a confession...I have never seen CASABLANCA all the way through. I fell asleep midway into it the only time I tried to watch it....probably because it was a rainy Saturday afternoon and I hadn't gotten enough sleep the night before, not because the film was boring or sleep-inducing! I am sure it's a wonderful film. But here I am, a film school grad, with all these years of watching cinema, and I haven't seen CASABLANCA and I have not seen a lot of Michael Curtiz's other work. I don't even think I've seen half of Martin Scorsese's films either. 's film school, WOW, that's awesome, TopBilled: bragging rights and just plain interesting in itself! |
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Post by topbilled on Aug 4, 2023 21:08:53 GMT
I think I can speak to this a little. When I attended film school at the University of Southern California in the mid-90s, we were focused on specific films and movements in film history. This was of course in terms of how the courses were designed, what a syllabus might include. Some courses were required, others were electives. So if you chose to focus on musicals you might have taken those types of courses as your electives, and not taken a class that focused on the type of films Scorsese made.
And to be honest, some of us came into it wanting to be the next James Cameron (post-Terminator) not the next Martin Scorsese. It's generational, the ones you look up to and want to emulate.
Also, because there are so many decades of cinema history with so much content in each year, it is possible to miss a whole genre or director or star and the work associated with that genre, director or star if your focus or interest is on something else in film.
After I graduated, I went to live abroad for about two years. When I came back, I continued to educate myself in film...but this meant catching up on new releases and also digging into film history into those areas I had missed in film school. And it always surprises me when I come across something I probably should have heard of before, but haven't.
Oh, and a confession...I have never seen CASABLANCA all the way through. I fell asleep midway into it the only time I tried to watch it....probably because it was a rainy Saturday afternoon and I hadn't gotten enough sleep the night before, not because the film was boring or sleep-inducing! I am sure it's a wonderful film. But here I am, a film school grad, with all these years of watching cinema, and I haven't seen CASABLANCA and I have not seen a lot of Michael Curtiz's other work. I don't even think I've seen half of Martin Scorsese's films either. 's film school, WOW, that's awesome, TopBilled: bragging rights and just plain interesting in itself!
I would spend half my time there, and the other half my time at the USC Annenberg School for Communication, because my second major was broadcast journalism. And sometimes I think I preferred my journalism classes a little better than the film and television classes. Well, all of it was very interesting with some excellent professors in both schools.
What I liked about the journalism coursework is that it helped me become a better writer, which was the main reason I did that second major. I felt that any filmmaker worth his/her salt, should know how to write. You cannot bring strong visuals and dialogue to the screen if you can't write a good story.
I am going to have to find a copy of my old transcripts and share with all of you (if interested) the titles of the actual courses I took. |
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Post by vannorden on Aug 5, 2023 23:21:55 GMT
I know it's easy to think: "Gosh, you've never seen x,y,z film? What kind of Neanderthal are you?" I've thought that before when someone was presenting himself as a great authority, which was accompanied by chastising me for having seen some film he found to be weak in some way but which he had not actually seen. I chock it up to -- we can't all see everything. We all have our areas of interest, and sometimes film availability plays a big role in what we have and have not seen.
I used to feel inadequate about the books I'd not read. Then, when a professor friend was at my house, he marveled at all the wonderful books on my shelf that HE'D never read. That was exactly the eye-opener I needed. Though we both had a wealth of 19th-century British and early 20th-century American novels on our shelves in common, my copies of The Divine Comedy, Slaughterhouse-Five, and my much adored collected works, essays, and letters of Flannery O'Connor made him feel inadequate.
None of us will ever live long enough to see all the films we should, read all the books we should, or hear all the albums we should. For me, the biggest distinguishing factor is that I know I have holes in these areas. I also know that I've missed things that I don't even know about, but that's ok because I am still working on it. Perhaps that should be the biggest take away.
(And I could have read at least a dozen other books on my "must read" list if I hadn't read Moby Dick so many times. Still, what will my brother and I read together this fall? Hint: it has a white whale.....)
My criticism isn't about someone who hasn't seen a particular classic film. There are many popular classics I have yet to see. My issue largely is more concerned with the pattern I see emerging with younger filmmakers and film studies majors who essentially don't even have a rudimentary understanding of Classic Hollywood, or even things prior to the 1990s. For instance, that same Gen-Z filmmaker I referenced, has watched several other classic films on his channel and each time, he admits he doesn't know who any of the actors are and then just laughs and says, "it's from the 1960 guys, so cut me some slack." There is almost a brazen ignorance and lack of curiosity in discovering decades worth of filmmaking. I truly think we could be nearing the demise of legitimate film criticism and film history as we know it.
For example, in one of my lower division courses (Film History - 1959 to Present), we breezed by some of the topmost film movements of the period, notably French New Wave and New Hollywood, and devoted inordinate attention to Hong Kong, Mainland China, Korea, Africa, Mexico, etc. We never discussed Fellini, Bergman, Tarkovsky, Antonioni, Bunuel, or many European auteurs. (Yes, I know these are familiar names, but not mentioning them seems blasphemous, especially to students who have only seen a handful of films before the 1990s.) But an entire week was dedicated to blaxploitation and a black film movement that derived from UCLA in the 1970s called the L.A. Rebellion. My professor spent more time dismissing the auteur theory and pontificating about modern versus postmodern concepts and lionizing culture theorists such as Stuart Hall and bell hooks.
Studying the aforementioned is fascinating and advantageous, but this was a lower-division film history course. Why was it convoluted with pseudo-intellectual nonsense when the attention should be principally on specific filmmakers, film movements, and filmic terms? We have genre-specific courses that provide more intensive studies, especially those related to classical period Hollywood. Still, most students have no interest in films over a half-century old, nor do many display much maturity when watching these older films, as they laugh at things that are not remotely funny. Some of the reactions leave me deplored. |
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